|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Dec-11-10 | | Stormbringer: Didn't get it
I had Qh6+, Kxe7
30 Qg7+, Ke8 (other squares controlled by the knight)
31 Bxg6+, Kd8
32 Qg8+, Rf8
33 Nf7+, Ke7
34 Qg7
with a won game for white
...
must have overlooked something ??? 30 ... Kd8 instead of e8 perhaps? |
|
Dec-11-10
 | | Phony Benoni: <rilkefan> I mentioned that in my first post: I was seeing 29.Rxd7 Rxh4 30.Rxd6 cxd6, when White has two pieces for a rook but will hard pressed to keep both due to the threats of ...Rg4+ or ...Rh5. For instance, 30.h3 Rh5 31.h4 Rxh4 and we're back where we started, or 30.Ne6+ Ke7. Maybe there's something, but I couldn't see it. And now I'd better shut up for the night before people start realizing I have no idea what I'm talking about. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | Blunderdome: I played 29. Rxd7 Rxh4 30. Rxd6 cxd6, missing that white will lose another minor afterward. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | AGOJ: 29.Re8+ did not cross my mind. Sadly, I didn't even realise White was trying to draw. |
|
Dec-11-10
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Got fooled by this one. I was looking for a drawing sequence, saw 29 Re8+, but dismissed it after 29...Bxe8.
click for larger view I did not see the winning continuation 30 Qxf4+ Qxf4 31 Ne6+.
click for larger view |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | Toliman: Black draws first ;) with 25. ..Nxf4! (26. Bg8!) |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | Jambow: Sorry I was tired I just looked. :o( |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | Old Wolf: First idea in the position is that the black major pieces are positioned for knight forks: QxR QxQ; Ne6+ forking king and queen. The black bishop thwarts this plan so how can we eliminate it? Rxd7 fails to ..RxQ, but Re8+ looks promising, and the black king comes under heavy fire in all variations. From here we just have to be confident enough in our analysis to play it :) Or perhaps (for lowly players like me), if we cannot find any other non-losing continuation, play and pray. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | David2009: Khalifman vs Kaidanov, 1986 White 29? White looks totally lost e.g. 29 Rf7+ Rxf7 30 Nxf7 Kxf7 and the B at h7 is trapped.
29 Qxf4+? loses even faster to Qxf4 30 Rf7+ Qxf7 31 Nxf7 Kxf7 and wins the Bishop. Finally try
29 Rxd7 Rxh4 30 Rxd6 cxd8 31 h3 Rh5 32 Ne6+ Ke7 Bxg6 and, unbelievably, White clings on to his two pieces for a Rook.
Can this really work or have I missed something? Time to
check:
=====
White found a different escape in the puzzle position:
click for larger view (Khalifman vs Kaidanov, 1986 White 29?)
Crafty End Game Trainer link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
Sure enough, my suggestion 29 Rxd7 Rxh4 30 Rxd6 cxd8 31 h3 fails to Kg7 and Kf6 winning a piece. With the game line 29.Re8+ Kxe8 30.Bxg6+ Ke7 31.Qh7+ the EGT plays
31...Kd8! 32.Nf7+ Rxf7 33.Qxf7 c5 
click for larger view
Now White has to be careful not to lose quickly: best seems to be 34.Qg8+ Kc7 35.Qg7 planning general exchanges on d7.
The EGT responds 35...Qf4 allowing 36.Qe5+ Qxe5 37.dxe5 with a drawn B+P ending. 35...cxd4? is bad because in the K+P ending White has the outside passed Pawn and can also attack Black's doubled passed Pawns. However 35...c4 seems to give Black real winning chances since after 36.Be8 Kd8 37.Bxd7 Qxd7 the Pawn ending is won for Black if the Queens come off. This is a very intriguing ending starting at the second diagram, and investigating it has been very worth while. <RandomVisitor> gives the Rybka4 line 31...Kd8 32.Nf7+ Rxf7 33.Qxf7 with 33...Kc8 instead of 33...c5 proposed by the EGT. It would be intresting to have Rybka4's refutation of 33...c5. I see I am not alone both in finding that the original puzzle was, indeed, <very difficult> and being unable to solve it. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | gofer: I struggled with this one. I don't think I have an answer... 20 Rf7+ Rxf7 21 Nxf7 Kxf7 (Bxg6 Qxg6)
20 Rxd7 Rxh4 21 Rxd6 cxd6 and white is going to lose either B or N cheaply! So all I can see is...
20 Qh6+ Kxe7
21 Qg7+ Kd8 (Ke8 Bxg6+)
22 Nf7+ Rxf7
23 Qxf7 ...
I see this as a draw at best! Time to check... |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | kevin86: What's the idea for this one? Is a draw the best white can do or did he blow a win? |
|
Dec-11-10
| | Jimfromprovidence: I spent more time going over the puzzle this morning and fikrst reconfirmed to myself that white's best chance is to find a draw. I also found a few things worth conveying (I hope).
Here’s a picture of the position after the popular continuation 29 Rxd7 Rxh4 30 Rxd6 cxd6. 
click for larger viewNote that the bishop is trapped. Below are three continuations that all lose a piece for white. If 31 Bxg6, then 31 Rg4+ wins a piece.
If 31 Ne6+, then 31…Kf7 32 Nd8+ Ke8 and a piece is lost. If 31 Kf1 (to avoid 31…Rg4+), then 31…Kg7 32 h3 Kf6 wins a piece. Below is a variation of the text that also equalizes for white. If 30…Kf8 (instead of 30…Ke7),then 31 Qh6+ Ke7 32 Qg7+ Kd8 33 Nf7+! Rxf7 34 Bxf7. 
click for larger viewThis was a fiendishly clever puzzle. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | patzer2: For today's difficult Saturday puzzle solution, the desperado-like sham sacrifice 29. Re8+!! initiates a deep defensive combination, which is White's only reasonable try to hold the draw. Here's a break out with Fritz 10:
<29. Re8+!!> Desperation becomes the mother of brilliance, because all other options here lose outright. If 29. Rxd7?, then Black wins after 29...Rxh4 30. Rxd6 cxd6 31. Bxg6
Rg4+ 32. Kf2 Rxg5 33. Bd3 Rg4 34. Ke3 Rg2  .
<29... Kxe8>
If 29... Kg7, then 30. Rg8+ Kf6 31. Ne4+  , snares the Black Queen. If 29... Bxe8, then 30. Qxf4+ Qxf4 31. Ne6+ Kf7 32. Nxf4 Kg7 33. Bxg6
Bxg6 34. Nxd5 c6 35. Nb4 uses a Knight fork to force a won ending. <30. Bxg6+ Ke7>
If 30... Kd8 31. Nf7+ , the discovered check and Knight Fork wins the Queen and the game. If 30...Qxg6 31. Qxf4 = gives White level chances.
If 30... Kf8, then 31. Qh6+ Ke7 (31... Kg8 32. Qh7+ Kf8 33. Qh8+ Ke7 34. Qg7+ Kd8 35. Nf7+ Rxf7 36. Bxf7 =) 32. Qg7+ Kd8 33. Nf7+ Rxf7 34. Qxf7 c5 35. Bf5 Bxf5 36. Qxf5 cxd4 37. Qg5+ Ke8 38. Qg8+ Kd7 39. Qg4+ Kc6 40. Qxd4  to = gives White about even chances in a difficult Queen and pawn ending. Even so, this may be Black's best chance to fight for a win. <31. Qh7+ Kf6>
If 31... Kf8, then 32. Qh6+ Ke7 33. Qg7+ Kd8 34. Nf7+ Rxf7 35. Bxf7 = equalizes. <32. Qh6! Rg4+ 33. Kh1 Qf4> If 33... Rxg5, then 34. Bh7+ Ke7 35. Qxg5+ = holds.
<34. Bh5+ Ke7 35. Qg7+ Kd6> If 35... Kd8, then 36. Qh8+ Ke7 37. Qg7+ Kd6 38. Qg6+ Ke7 39. Qg7+ = puts us back into the equalizing pattern. <36. Qg6+ Ke7 37. Qg7+ Kd6> If 37... Kd8, then 38. Qg8+ Ke7 39. Qg7+ Kd6 40. Qg6+ Ke7 41. Qg7+ = repeats the drawing repetition. <38. Qg6+ 1/2-1/2> With a three-fold repetition about to happen, the draw is agreed upon. |
|
Dec-11-10
 | | scormus: Saturday, right? As soon as I looked at this I was sure I'd get it easy. And everything I tried seemed to comme up short, or not better than equal. I'm not sure if I have it now but the best I can do (with I think the best play from B) is 29. Qh6+ Kxe7 30. Qg7+ Ke8 31. Qg8+ Rf8 32. Bxg6+ Kd8 33. Nf7+ Ke7 34. Qh7 (if I'm right that's the key move) and I cant find any more moves for B to wriggle out. e.g. Qf4 35. Ne5+ Rf7 36. Qf7+ Qxf7 38. Bxf7 and W is an N up. Better check. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | rilkefan: <Phony Benoni>: <For instance, 30.h3 Rh5>
Yeah, in the clear light of day I see that I was just hallucinating that h3 helped. Hope it's just the cold the kids brought home from daycare. I'd still like the ability to move the pieces around in the viewer on weekends without getting spoiled. |
|
Dec-11-10
| | scormus: Looks like I didnt get it, but I'll look some more. |
|
Dec-11-10
| | scormus: Ah-ha, B can interpose the Q on f8 instead of the R. OK, I guess it really is drawn (even RV's R4 says so). Great puzzle, it looked for all the world like there was a win for W. <rilkefan> glad I'm not the only one that moves the pieces in the viewer. I always try to start by just looking at the position, but no way I could attempt a weekender like that. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | agb2002: White has a knight for a pawn.
Black threatens 29... Rxh4 and 29... Kxe7.
The possibility of a knight fork suggests 29.Re6 and 29... Bxe6 loses to 30.Qxf4+, however, Black wins with the simple 29... Rxh4 30.Rxd6 cxd6. Another option is 29.Rxd7 but it also fails because of 29... Rxh4 30.Rxd6 cxd6 31.Kf2 (31.Ne6+ Ke7 and White loses a piece) Rxh3 32.Kg3 Rxb2 - + [R+3P vs B+N]. The direct 29.Qh6+ Kxe7 30.Qg7+ Kd8 31.Nf7+ Rxf7 32.Qxf7 Bf5 leaves White without attack and a pawn down. A similar situation arises after 29.Rf7+ Rxf7 30.Nxf7 Kxf7 31.Qd8 Kg7 32.Qg8+ Kh6. The other check with the rook, 29.Re8+, yields:
A) 29... Bxe8 30.Qxf4+
A.1) 30... Qxf4 31.Ne6+ Kf7 32.Nxf4 Kg7 33.Nxd5 Bf7 (33... Kxh7 34.Nf6+ and 35.Nxe8) 34.Nxc7 Kxh7 (34... Bxa2 35.Bxg6 and 36.Nxa6) 35.Nxa6 with the better endgame. A.2) 30... Kg7 31.Qxd6 cxd6 32.Kf2 Kh6 33.h4 Kg7 (33... Kh5 34.Kg3) 34.h4 followed by Kg3 and h5, liberating the bishop and winning. B) 29... Kg7 30.Rg8+ Kf6 31.Rxg6+ Ke7 (31... Kf5 32.Rxd6+) 32.Qe1+ winning. C) 29... Kxe8 30.Bxg6+
C.1) 30... Qxg6 31.Qxf4
C.1.a) 31... Qb1+ 32.Qf1 Qxb2 33.Qf7+ Kd8 34.Qf8+ Be8 35.Ne6+ Kd7 36.Nc5+ Kd8 37.Qf6+ Kc8 38.Qe6+ Kd8 39.Nb7#. C.1.b) 31... Qf5 32.Qxf5 Bxf5 33.Kf2 and the h-pawn should compensate Black's pawn majority on the queen side. C.2) 30... Kd8 31.Nf7+ Kc(e)8 32.Nxd6+ wins.
C.3) 30... Kf8 31.Qh8+ Ke7 32.Qg7+ Kd8 33.Nf7+ Rxf7 34.Qxf7 looks more or less even. C.4) 30... Ke7 31.Qh7+ Kf6 (other king moves are similar to C.3) 32.Qh6 and White seems to have compensation for the exchange due to the exposed black king. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | patzer2: I had pretty good luck against Crafty after 29.Re8+!! Kxe8 30.Bxg6+ Ke7 31.Qh7+ Kd8! 32.Nf7+ Rxf7 33.Qxf7 c5, with 34. Bf5! Bxf5 35. Qxf5 to =, when White with strong play should be able to hold the Queen and Pawn ending. |
|
Dec-11-10
| | Phony Benoni: <rilkefan> Have you tried moving the pieces around in the viewer? I find that I can, using the default Chess Viewer DeLuxe. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | wals: Not a chance.
Rybka 4 x 64 blunders only
depth: 20 : 12 min :
Black
(=-0.10):21...g6. Best, Qh6, - 1.24.
1.  (-1.24): 21...Qh6 22.Ndf3 Rxg5[] 23.Qxg5 Kxh7[] 24.Qxh6+ Kxh6 25.Rfe1 Nf4 26.Ne5 Bf5 27.Rad1 g5 28.h3 Kg7 29.Rd2 d4 30.Nf3 dxc3 31.bxc3 Kh6 32.Ne5 Bc8 33.Ng4+ Kg7 34.Kh2 Ba5 35.Re3 Bb7
---
38.Qg6+ Ke7 39.Qg7+ three-fold repetition. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | David2009: Khalifman vs Kaidanov, 1986 postscript: <Patzer2> CONGRATULATIONS - after <29.Re8+!! Kxe8 30.Bxg6+ Ke7 31.Qh7+ Kd8! 32.Nf7+ Rxf7 33.Qxf7 c5> your further move <34. Bf5!> actually WINS for White (against the EGT) after the sequence 34...Bxf5 35.Qxf5 cxd4?? 36.Qg5+ Ke8 37.Qg8+ Qf8 38.Qxf8+ Kxf8 39. Kf2 etc 1-0 The EGT is tactically very sharp but is sometimes strategically weak (the event horizon effect). It is apt to allow exchanges into lost K&P endings (as here). It also sometimes contrives to lose when defending drawn R&P vs R endings. |
|
| Dec-11-10 | | Patriot: This was really tough. My first thought was 29.Rxd7 but 29...Rxh4 30.Rxd6 cxd6 and black threatens 31...Rg4+ winning. I spent a long time on 29.Qh6+ and briefly looked at 29.Re6. 29.Qh6+ was the only move that I liked. I missed the ...Bf5 defense, saving the g6 pawn. For example, 29.Qh6+ Kxe7 30.Qg7+ Kd8 31.Nf7+ Rxf7 32.Qxf7 Bf5 and black is better. 29.Re8+ never came to mind! |
|
| Dec-12-10 | | tacticalmonster: 1) All of white pieces are all vulnerable:
a) White queen and rook are both under attack
b) Black can play Rg4 forking king and knight
c) Black can trap the bishop with Kg7
d) White king misses the protection of f and g pawn
2) White has some assets though:
a) White is up a knight for a pawn
b) Black king is exposed and it is in a stalemate position if the white rook can be protected c) White should aim for Ne6+ without allowing Bxe6
d) Black has weak light square e8-f7-e6 complex. White should eliminate Black's light square bihsop e) Black queen is overloaded defending both d7 bishop and f4 rook One question arise: Should White play for a win or for a draw? Not sure at this point. after more than an hour thought I decide to give up |
|
Aug-01-15
 | | perfidious: Fiendishly clever play by Khalifman to escape the abyss; searched for this game, intending to moot it as a Sunday POTD, but it is clear someone else had the same bright idea. |
|
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
