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| Oct-07-06 | | Eyal: <BipolarFanatic: <Anyway, could this game be nominated for an immortal, or at least "game of the tournament" so far?> No, certainly not an immortal (too many dubious moves from Kramnik)> I agree. Also, speaking in terms of "immortality", I cannot help feeling this game is aesthetically diminished because Topalov didn't finish it off with 39.Be6, which is stronger, prettier, and more thematic than the move actually played. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | ongyj: "speaking in terms of "immortality", I cannot help feeling this game is aesthetically diminished because Topalov didn't finish it off with 39.Be6, which is stronger, prettier, and more thematic than the move actually played." Typical Topalov, getting himself into a better position, failing to find the correct(or best) finish off:) But still, exciting game played, and IMO it's the best game to watch so far. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | Baron Harkonnen: i think you are right, Zenchess..Kramnik should had walk out BEFORE game five and NOT comeback, OR, played game 5 and fill a complaint like he did and keep playing. I think he made a mistake in forfeit game 5 and decided later to comeback. Despite this filthy Topas Team tatics, he should stand and, like i said, walk out for good or played all, games. He should not "give" game 5 to Topalov.He Knows he made an strategical mistake there..Now, he is in danger to loose it all. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | ongyj: But had Kramnik not played on, we wouldn't have such a good game to watch today! And I really think White played well, with interesting deviations in the opening worth a careful study:) |
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| Oct-07-06 | | SanChess: Well, well, well, what's going on? Kramnik played yet another poor game and allowed topalov to lead for the first time in the match (score-wise, that is, because he has actually led in eagerness and opening preparation since the beginning.) Kramnik's problem in the last two games is that he has lost his edge regarding positional judgement and accurate play. We now have a chess match though, after the toilet crisis, but probably amongst the worse regarding quality of play by both opponents. If Kramnik wakes up for the next three games we may retain some hopes to see the best chess by both players. Topalov is currently reaping what he intended and has the upper hand this far. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | sheaf: this is the first win of the tourney which also is a top class chess game. I think kramnik tried to defend a crumbling position but he lost thread somewhere.. i need to analyse this to make myself precise |
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| Oct-07-06 | | ongyj: Yeah, and really, someone please offer analysis. Please do! Thanks in advance:) |
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| Oct-07-06 | | Baron Harkonnen: I posted in other room this: If we forget about the players and stick only in CHESS matters, c'mon, even the Kramnik supporters gotta admit (i include myself after the crisis):Topalov is washing Kramnik out of the board. Even his losses actually happened by his blunders(one was incredible)..He always had the iniciative of the match..Lets wait tomorrow if is going to happen payback. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | s.ahmed: I think 11...0-0 is suicidal for KRAMNIK.may he could achive a sound & complicated position after topa"s 11th mv.Should 11...Nb6,12...Qc7 & finally 13...0-0-0 |
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| Oct-07-06 | | roni.chessman: When you think of it, Karpov's championship was also tainted. Korchnoi's family was being held by a group a people, and Kramnik's toilet pressure is nothing compared to what Korchnoi had to endure. One question for you guys though:
If Topalov wipes the floor out of Kramnik for the next two games, would you consider him THE WORLD CHAMPION? |
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| Oct-07-06 | | babakova: <If Topalov wipes the floor out of Kramnik for the next two games, would you consider him THE WORLD CHAMPION?> Yes of course. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | sabit singson: It is a proof that when Topalov played 39.R7f3, he is not getting any computer advice but playing on his own.
I believe that both Kramnik and Topalov are playing on their own thinking. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | grobmaverick: Will VK risk another SLAV tomorrow? Or is Topas opening prep too deep. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | Inf: <percyblakeney: Kramnik has white in 2 of the last 3 games, so he shouldn't have too small chances.> ppl saying that is time for K to play 1.e4. you telling me that K will rather go e4 against the astonishing killer 1...c5 player that topa is?? |
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| Oct-07-06 | | SanChess: Kramnik needs to make a strong statement on the board, whatever opening he employs in his next two whites. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | aazqua: Kramnik made a big mistake in skipping out game 5. The money was too important - he had to come back - so missing the game was an empty bluff. Play the game, then complain. Topa has cleraly played better this match, without his screw ups in the first games this could be a shutout. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | Sporka Child: <ongyj: I don't think the resignation was premature. White has a pawn up, doubled rooks and double Bishops, no evident pawn weaknesses, put the opponent King in a somewhat open, vulnerable position. A superior position in any aspect of evaluation. Also, White is nowhere near time trouble. In this kind of situation, there's really only two choices for Black. 1. Resign or 2.Watch the position further deteriorate until a severe material/positional disadvantage leading to checkmate.> I want to type this in big nasty caps but I won't, even though the emotion is there ... All of this and, not to mention the 3 vs 2 pawn islands where Black's are isolani or doubled ... YUCK!!!!! Also consider this point: Black's Knights are tied up like little dawgies. One steed is pinned while the other requires "back up" just to jump back into the game via f8. Black is consolidating while on the defense with a broken position. You can see pawns dropping in almost every variation from here. Quick sand is forming everywhere, and Black has limited piece mobility! |
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| Oct-07-06 | | sotov: sotov: <roni.chessman If Topalov wipes the floor out of Kramnik for the next two games, would you consider him THE WORLD CHAMPION?> No. Such behavior is not indicative of a "Champion." A Champion when losing will internally rise to the occasion or lose gracefully but return to win. A Champion would never accept a such a stolen victory and use a scandal to gain leverage. We are speaking of the World Champion of Chess. A man who will stand by such cheap accusations at Vladimir demonstrates too little class to be the successor to Lasker, Capablanca, Botvinnik...legends and gentleman. Topalov's actions are geared towards profit. Would the Champions of the past approve of such actions? Imagine what a vice he and FIDE will hold on the title once it is stolen if Topalov can have such a grip on the match before he has won. It is HE who should be tried for cheating AND collusion. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | grobmaverick: <Would the Champions of the past approve of such actions?> Botvinnik, Alekhine and Fischer were not exactly whiter than white |
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| Oct-07-06 | | OneArmedScissor: These petty arguments are so trivial and stupid. It's ridiculous. "OMG Topalov is acting weird! He's acting like he wants to win! That's wrong! OMG Call the morality police!!!" Cry more please? K thanks.
=*( <------ you crying
Just like an onion, you can peel away at the many layers of this "he's not acting like a champion" crap, but eventually, you're left with nothing but the results ON THE BOARD. You can cry about stupid trivial stuff all day, but if you can't prefer on the board, you have no one else to blame but yourself.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen! |
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| Oct-07-06 | | OneArmedScissor: edit: preform*** |
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| Oct-07-06 | | alterego: Folks, this kind of "psychological" crap is going on all the time. I saw it in person at the Korchnoi-Spasski in 1977 in Belgrade, when they had to close the match (quarterfinals) for the public, because of the repeated scandals and open animosity between the two (Korchnoi had just emigrated from USSR and there was a lot of diplomatic maneuvering around the match). None of them would sit at the podium on the move of the other. And Spasski would move the little Swiss flag around every time he would come to the stage, to irritate Korchnoi, who would move it back. And that for the entire match! And there were the political pressures on the players of the real kind during the cold war, emigrations, pressures on families and threats, not the toilet training crisis! Or Fischer and Spasski, or Karpov and Korchnoi, with the accusations of Karpov's para-psychologist in the audience. Low blows are a rule, not an exception. Lasker used to eat garlic and blow cigar smoke at the oponent. So, Kramnik forefeited and that is it, so did Fischer against Spasski. Now he should play and win it back, that is after all why they are chess players, to play. All the rest is fluff, or a flush (?). |
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| Oct-07-06 | | ongyj: Again, my challenge to anyone would be to provide examples of World champions who can be role models in their moral values. Even if you could name a few, they are mostly from the romantics. In modern world today, there's not much morals to speak of in any competitive setting. Sad but true. |
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| Oct-07-06 | | Bufon: Congratulations to Veselin Topalov for winning again, and taking one more step in his WC title!!! |
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| Oct-07-06 | | grobmaverick: <Imagine what a vice he and FIDE will hold on the title once it is stolen if Topalov can have such a grip on the match before he has won.>
At least we will see a world championship fight every couple of years and not the farce that has so far occurred this decade. However we are all stuck with this new system until Kirsan departs. |
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