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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Aug-27-10 | | YouRang: I see that <Phony Benoni> disputes my claim that it's drawn. But he has the unfair advantage of actually analyzing the position instead of merely glancing at it. |
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| Aug-27-10 | | M.Hassan: "Difficult" Black to play 29....
Materials are equal.
I assumed the game is continued in one of the following lines Line A
29.........Bxc4
30.Nxc4 Rxc4
31.Rxb7 Rc1+
32.Kg2 d2
33.Rd7 d1=Q
34.Rxd1 Rxd1
White is down by a Rook and I "assume"
0-1
Line B
29.........Bxc4
30.Rxb7 Bxa2
31.Rxa7 Rc1+
32.Kg2 Rc2
33.Nf3 Bd5
34.Ra6+ Bc6
35.Ra1 g4
36.hxg4 fxg4
37.Ra6 d2
38.Rxc6+ Rxc6
39.Nxd2
White remains with N+3pawns and Black wirh R+2pawns and I assume Black wins
0-1
Let's check see how wrong I could be
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Same results, way different moves. Never thought that the critical move of 29... starts with .....Rxc4! |
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| Aug-27-10 | | rapidcitychess: I coined a new phrase today for a distraction puzzle. It is now a "Jedi" puzzle. What's the reason? Well what do you think of when you see a blockade of a past pawn lifted as in Capablanca vs B H Villegas, 1914 Distraction right? But what distracts better than the Force? Thus a Jedi tactic. Few know the Jedi tactic well. Even fewer love using it to push a pawn attack forward. Even fewer than that call it the Jedi tactic.:) The Jedi tactic is used for pawn rollers, the Nf5 sac in the Velimroc Sicilian, Nxd5 exd5, e6 in the French and many, many, many more. The final tactic is the zugzwang, which is of course famous in Samisch vs Nimzowitsch, 1923 but is used in many other positions like
click for larger view
Which is the a simplified version of this, can you see why? Hope this amuses and teaches. |
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| Aug-27-10 | | VincentL: This is effectively two puzzles; one starting with Rxc4 and continuing up to the position
click for larger viewand the second the end game.
From here I think white is going to soon be in zugzwang, and will then have to play a move which loses immediately. (a) 33. Kd2 Ke4 34. b4 h5 35. b5 a6. 36. Kc3 a5.
Now either the a pawn or d pawn will queen.
(b) 33. f3. g4 34. h4 gxf3 35. Kf2 Ke4 36. h5 b5 37. b4 a6 and we have the zugzwang. Other white moves bring about a similar fate.
Time to read the other kibitzes (I tried to avoid them last night, except to check that my first move was correct). |
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Aug-27-10
 | | OBIT: <JimP>Nice point about ...f4 not getting the job done. In the
critical line 29...Rxc4 30. Nxc4 Bxc4 31. Ke1 Bxb3 32. axb3 Ke5 33. f3 f4 34. ef gf 35. g4, I think 35...h5 is the best try, the idea being to play ...h5 before White plays h4. This can lead to the following: (a1) 36. Kd2? hg 37. hg Kd4 38. g5 Ke5 39. Kxd3 Kf5 40. Kd4 Kxg5 41. b4
Kh4 wins. If White goes after the queenside pawns, Black queens first. (a2) 36. Kd2? hg 37. fg Kd4 38. g5 f3 39. g6 (39. Ke1 Ke5 and White is in zugzwang as soon as he runs out of pawn moves) f2 40. g7 f1=Q 41. g8=Q Qe2+ 42. Kc1 Qc2# (b) 36. h4? hg 37. fg f3 is similar to the zugzwang in line a2: the White king must give way as soon as the pawn moves run out. (c) 36. g5?! h4 is hairy, but I think Black ekes out the victory. For example, after 37. Kd2 Kf5 38. Kxd3 Kxg5 39. b4 Kf5 40. Kd4 a6 41. Kc5
Ke5 42. Kb6 Kd4 43. Kxb7 Ke3 44. Kxa6 Kxf3 45. b5 Kg2 46. b6 f3 47. b7 f2 48. b8=Q f1=Q+ and Black wins by forcing the exchange of queens and then promoting his last pawn. (d) The saving line appears to be 36. gh! Kf5 37. Kd2 Kg5 38. Kxd3 Kxh5 39. Ke4 Kg5 40. h4+ Kxh4 41. Kxf4, with a drawn K+P endgame. |
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| Aug-27-10 | | eightbyeight: I hate myself. The idea is so simple yet I missed it. How do I free myself from this terrible bind of not wanting to hang my pieces? |
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| Aug-27-10 | | Everett: Did anyone else besides me at least consider 29..b4 30.cxb4 ♖c1+ 32.♔g2 ♗b7+ 33.f3 g4? |
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Aug-27-10
 | | Jimfromprovidence: <OBIT> Your analysis, along with <gofer>'s and others shows how tricky this endgame play can be. Now I’m restating that if 34…f4?! instead of the text 34…g4! is played, it is a drawn position. However, 33….f4 does win in the following continuation where you noted : “29...Rxc4 30. Nxc4 Bxc4 31. Ke1 Bxb3 32. axb3 Ke5 33. f3 f4 34. ef gf 35. g4, I think 35...h5 is the best try..." 
click for larger viewThe key is to play 35… h5 before either a5 or b5. I think this line wins without exception. You indicated that 36 gxh5 is a saving move for white, but I do not believe that this is true, because now 36…a5 is ripe to play. 
click for larger viewIf white‘s king goes after the a and b pawns, then black’s king will gobble up the remaining white f and h pawns and be able to promote his f pawn. It might come down to one tempo's difference. |
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| Aug-27-10 | | Everett: In my above line 33..Rc2 is better, and 33.Nf3 does not help black due to ..g4. However, after 29..b4 white can try 30.Ra3 Bb7 31.Rxa2 and black can try ..Bc6 or ..bxc4. |
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| Aug-27-10 | | seagull1756: shall we also calculate all the lines leading to checkmate after black queens the pawn? do you guys seriously think that going into a pawn ending with a clear extra pawn requires some sort of profound analysis? |
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| Aug-27-10 | | David2009: Black to play: 
click for larger view
Was 33...a5 a blunder (instead 33...g4!) and does 34 g4 (instead of 34 Kd2) draw for White? If 33...a5 34 g4 fxg4 35 hxg4 and if Black overpresses he loses. Black draws by keeping his Pawns on a5 and b5. In my first post Ftacnik vs A Aleksandrov, 2008 I wrote <the Pawn ending is easily won>: RUBBISH! (I am coming back to this very late: apologies if these points were covered earlier). |
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| Aug-27-10 | | rapidcitychess: <seagull> Umm... yes? |
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| Aug-27-10 | | Everett: Scratch all that.. After 29..b4 white responds 30.Rxd3 threatening Rd6. |
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Aug-27-10
 | | Phony Benoni: <David2009: Was 33...a5 a blunder (instead 33...g4!) and does 34 g4 (instead of 34 Kd2) draw for White? If 33...a5 34 g4 fxg4 35 hxg4 and if Black overpresses he loses. Black draws by keeping his Pawns on a5 and b5.> Position after <33...a5 34.g4>
click for larger view
I think Black wins this with <34...f4>. White can get a protected passed e-pawn witn <35.e4> and keep Black's king pinned down somewhat, but after <35...Kd4> it can keep the e-pawn under observation while preserving the d-pawn. When Black gets another passer after ...b5 and ...a4, White's king will not be able to stop both pawns. Another possibility is <36.Kd2 b5 37.e5 Kxe5 38.Kxd3 a4 39.bxa4 bxa4 40.Kc4 a3 41.Kb3 Kd4>, and the rest is easy. <seagull1756>: There are plenty of ♔+♙ endings with an extra pawn that are drawn. This doesn't appear to be one of them, but such analysis is never wasted for persons who need to learn. |
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| Aug-27-10 | | wladimirsky: <fischer2009: i prefer
Rc4 Nc4
d2!!
i wonder y nobody mentions dis>
After 30...d2 31.Ke2 |
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| Aug-27-10 | | wals: White strayed from the straight and narrow:-
(-3.20):29.c4.(depth 29). Much better,
Analysis by Rybka 4 x64: depth 23.
1. = (-0.23): 29.Ke1 Bb5 30.c4 Bxc4 31.Nxc4[] Rxc4 32.Rxd3 Rc1+ 33.Kd2 Rb1 34.Rd6+ Ke5 35.Rxh6 Rb2+ 36.Ke1 Rxa2 37.Rg6 Ke4 38.Rxg5 b5 39.Rg7 b4 40.Rb7 a5 41.g4 fxg4 42.hxg4 Kd3 43.Kf1 Rc2 44.g5 White plunges further into the mire:-
(-6.56):30.Nxc4. Better,
1.  (-3.20): 30.Rb1 Rc2[] 31.Ke1 Rxa2 32.f3 b6 33.Rc1 Bb5 34.f4 Rb2 35.Rc7 a5 36.Rb7 Bc6 37.Rh7 Kg6 38.Rh8 a4 39.Rd8 Be4 40.Rd6+ Kg7 41.Rd7+ Kf8 42.Ra7 b5 43.Kd1 gxf4 44.gxf4 Rc2 45.h4 2. (-3.57): 30.f3 Rc1+ 31.Kf2[] Rh1 32.Rb2 Rh2+ 33.Ke1 Re2+ 34.Kd1 Rxe3 35.g4 Re2 36.a3 Rh2 37.Ke1 Rxh3 38.Kf2 Ke5 39.Nf1 fxg4 40.fxg4 Kd4 41.Rb1 h5 42.gxh5 White was outclassed. |
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| Aug-28-10 | | TheRavenPK: ..forget my earlier post, now I just glanced on the position and saw 29..Bxc4 30. Rxb7 with a strong rook.. I am really in a bad shape, for about a month I really can't play chess..... |
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| Aug-28-10 | | kevin86: Black threatens to queen (at the expense of the rook) and the rook after move 30,either way,white is rooked. |
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| Nov-12-20 | | Walter Glattke: King is far-pinned, 29.-Rxc4 30.Nxc4 d2 31.Ke2 Bxc4+ 32.Rd3 d1Q+ 33.Kxd1 Bxd3 1 piece 30.Rxd3 Rc1+ 31.Ke2 Bxd3+ 32.Kxd3 Rh1 wins. Me and Rybka and Tarrasch play 29.Ke1 by far pinning diagonal. |
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| Nov-12-20 | | Walter Glattke: Black wins the ending by threatening a5-b5 breakthrough and -Kf3 breakthrough, the white king is overloaded after 29.-Rxc4 30.Nxc4 d2 31.Ke2 Bxc4+ 32.Kxd2 Bxb3 33.axb3 Ke5 as after the match continuation. 34.f3 a5 35.Kd3 h5 I found out, not the change combinaison, but the following ending decides the match in several variations. |
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| Nov-12-20 | | Brenin: This was easy for a Thursday, the exchange sacrifice being obvious since the N is a better blockader of the d-pawn than the R. A passed a-pawn will eventually decide the resulting K&P endgame in Black's favour. |
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| Nov-12-20 | | saturn2: After 29...Rxc4 30. Nxc4 Bxc4 black can give up 31. Ke1 Bxb3 32. axb3 Ke5 or
31. Rb1 d2+ 32. Kg1 Be2 or
31. Rb2 (Rxb5) d2+ 32. Kg2 d1 |
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| Nov-12-20 | | malt: Have 29...R:c4 30.N:c4 B:c4
(30...d2 31.Ke2 B:c4+ 32.K:d2 B:b3 33.ab3 )
31.Ke1 B:b3 32.ab3 Ke5 |
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| Nov-12-20 | | saturn2: <Phony Benoni There are plenty of ♔+♙ endings with an extra pawn that are drawn> In this gane the white king is on the first line while the advanved black king is active and controlls eventual passed pawns on the king side. Morover black can create another passer on the a file So one can either calculate a lot or just give it a glance and say black wins after 33...a5 |
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| Nov-12-20 | | Messiah: I tried to make 29...b5 work, with the idea of putting the Bishop on the a8-h1 diagonal, with some deadly checks on the 1st rank. No success. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 29...Rxc4