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Wang Hao vs Boris Gelfand
Tal Memorial (2010), Moscow RUS, rd 8, Nov-12
Semi-Slav Defense: General (D43)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-12-10  lost in space: Tal Memorial Rd 8: Aronian vs Grischuk

is my first, second, third and fourth choice.

Nov-12-10  malthrope: I'm in too for "Mamedyarov vs Wang" as the key game for round #8, atm. ;)
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: Btw, I've just watched the final minutes of the video feed - unfortunately I don't know Russian either, but the final position was definitely the one after 75.Kg5, and from the way in which Gelfand immediately extended his hand to Wang Hao after that I'm almost certain he indeed resigned (and in case of a draw we know they have to repeat).
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  norami: There are seven men on the board in the final position and the tablebases only cover up to six. How soon will they complete the seven-man tablebase?
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: The last case I remember in top-level chess of resignation in a drawn position is Carlsen vs Topalov, 2007. The most notorious one ever is probably Deep Blue vs Kasparov, 1997.
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: I'll join/complete the team as 5th for <Mamedyarov-Wang>.
Nov-12-10  cade: I vote for Tal Memorial Rd 8: Aronian vs Grischuk
Nov-12-10  acirce: <The most notorious one ever is probably Deep Blue vs Kasparov, 1997.>

If that was indeed a draw! It was thought that Kasparov could have forced a perpetual, but we now know it was not the case.

Kramnik vs Svidler, 2004 is of course another famous modern example. Others will be better aware of older games.

Nov-12-10  Ulhumbrus: <<Then reshuffling White's King to f5 with Rg8 may be the way to win as indicated by <crafty>: 75...Ke6 76 Re8+ Kd6 77 Ra8 Ke6 78 Ra6+ Ke7 79 Ra7+ and now on 79...Kf8 80 Kf5 followed by Ra7-a8-f8 [g8, I suppose]> 80.Kf5 Rb1 81.Ra8+ Ke7 82.Rg8 Rb5+ 83.Kg4/e4 Kf6, it's a draw.> In this sequence instead of 81 Ra8+, an alternative is 81 Rf7+ Kg8 82 Rd7 Kf8 83 Ke6 eg 83...Rb6+ 84 Rd6 Rb8 85 f5 Re8+ 86 Kd6 Rc8 87 Rd7 Re8 88 Kd6 Rc8 89 Rf7+ Kg8 90 Rc7 Rf8 91 Ke6 Re8+ 92 Kd7 Rf8 93 Rc8 winning
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <this sequence instead of 81 Ra8+, an alternative is 81 Rf7+ Kg8 82 Rd7 Kf8 83 Ke6 eg 83...Rb6+ 84 Rd6 Rb8 85 f5 Re8+ 86 Kd6 Rc8 87 Rd7 Re8 88 Kd6 Rc8 89 Rf7+ Kg8 90 Rc7 Rf8 91 Ke6 Re8+ 92 Kd7 Rf8 93 Rc8 winning>

Assuming this should be 86.Kd5 (the rook is on d6), the mistake that allows White to win here is 92...Rf8?? - there's no progress after 92...Kf8!

Nov-12-10  Marmot PFL: Tal Memorial Rd 8: Mamedyarov vs Wang
The Chinese all play the Slav, draw or long 1-0

Tal Memorial Rd 8: Aronian vs Grischuk
This could be more lively (or not). Aronian's 5th white in 8 games.

Tal Memorial Rd 8: Nakamura vs Gelfand
Another boring Petroff :)

Tal Memorial Rd 8: Karjakin vs Kramnik
Ditto

Tal Memorial Rd 8: Shirov vs Eljanov
Shirov is overdue for a win, which I thought he would get today.

Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  norami: As to which game to watch, I'm still hoping to see Nakamura win the tournament. It's been 40 years since an American won a major tournament like this, so that would be something. No wait - did Kamsky win a major tournament as an American citizen?
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: Btw, in one of Ilya Odessky's reports from the tournament (http://translate.google.com/transla....), he said that while talking to Aronian after his game with Kramnik in the 1st round, Aronian asked him to guess who the most talented player at the Tal Memorial was, and then named Wang Hao. Always hard to know with Aronian whether he's being completely serious, though.
Nov-12-10  wanabe2000: I also vote for Mamedyarov-Wang.
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: OK, that's plenty of voting -- Mamedyarov vs Wang Hao, 2010 it is. See you tomorrow morning!
Nov-12-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: <chessgames.com: OK, that's plenty of voting, Mamedyarov-Wang Hao, 2010 --Live Broadcast Page , 2010 it is. See you tomorrow morning!>

Thanks chessgames!

Nov-12-10  FISCHERboy: What's THE PURPOSE OF 41. Rd8?
Nov-12-10  MWYOUNG: Looks like GM Gelfand resigned in a drawn position. Is this correct? I can find no way for white to force a win in the position where GM Gelfand resigned.

If there is a forced win, can someone post the winning line for white.

Nov-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  mike1: MWYoung: dont understand your post.
Black is unable to defend the g7-pawn
and resigned because of it.
75. Kg5 Rg1+, 76.Kf5 and Rxg7 ....
Nov-13-10  percyblakeney: <Looks like GM Gelfand resigned in a drawn position. Is this correct?>

Yes, even if "it's not a trivial draw, mind you" as Monokroussos described it.

Nov-13-10  percyblakeney: <Wang Hao felt a bit strange about it. I was very lucky, he repeated a few times in the press room, and even started to apologize for playing on in the ending so long. Unnecessary apologies of course, if only because a draw offer isnt allowed at this tournament anyway.>

http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/w...

Nov-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: As was already explained in some detail here right after the game, <75...Ke6!> (not Rg1+?) draws - e.g., 76.Rxg7 Rg1+, and in order to escape the checks White has to give up g6 (77.Kh4 Kf6 etc.).
Nov-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: Position after 61...Kf8:


click for larger view

As I mentioned during the game, I think Wang Hao chose the wrong plan here. He could have won in a "normal" way with <62.f5!> (threatening f6 or h6) Rf2 63.Kg4 Rg2+ (63...Ke8 64.Kg5) 64.Kf4 Rf2+ 65.Ke4 Re2+ 66.Kf3 Rh2 (66...Re5 67.Kf4) 67.f6! gxf6 68.Kg4! (defending h5 for the moment) to be followed by Kf5 and Kxf6, or Ke6 (and if 68...Rf2, then 69.h6).

Nov-13-10  MWYOUNG: <MWYoung: dont understand your post. Black is unable to defend the g7-pawn
and resigned because of it.
75. Kg5 Rg1+, 76.Kf5 and Rxg7 ....>

The point is after 75..Ke6!(NOT Rg1+??). White can never take the g7 pawn. Without black forcing a draw.

Example line:

75. Kg5 Ke6 76. Rxg7 Rg1+ 0.17/35 26 77.
Kh5 0.17/36 8 Rh1+ 0.17/36 4 78. Kg4 0.17/36 2 Rg1+ 0.17/35 3 79. Kf3 0.17/35 2 Kf5 0.17/33 2 80. Rd7 0.17/34 2 Kxg6 0.17/33 2 81. Ke2 0.00/ 0 2 Rg3 0.00/0 1 82. Ra7 0.00/0 1 Kf5 0.00/0 1 83. Rf7+ 0.00/0 1 Ke4 0.00/0 1 84. Kd1 0.00/0 1 Rf3 0.00/0 1 85. Kc1 0.00/0 1 Kd4 0.00/0 1 86. f5 0.00/0 1 Ke4 0.00/0 1 87. Kc2 0.00/0 1 Ke5 0.00/0 1 88. Re7+ 0.00/0 1 Kd4 0.00/0 1 89. Rd7+ 0.00/0 1 Ke4 0.00/0 3 90. Rd6 0.00/0 1 Kxf5 Draws

Nov-16-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <62.f5! (threatening f6 or h6) Rf2 63.Kg4 Rg2+ (63...Ke8 64.Kg5) 64.Kf4 Rf2+ 65.Ke4 Re2+ 66.Kf3 Rh2 (66...Re5 67.Kf4) 67.f6! gxf6 68.Kg4!>

It might be worth continuing the line, since it includes an instructive skewer tactics in what might appear at first glance as a drawn position: 68Ke8 (68...Rg2+ 69.Kf5 Rf2+ 70.Ke6) 69.Kf5! Rxh5+ 70.Kxf6 Rh2 71.Ra8+ Kd7 72.g7 Rf2+ 73.Ke5 Rg2 74.Rxa2! Rxg7 75.Ra7+. The same winning plan could still be implemented on move 69.

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