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Stockfish (Computer) vs AlphaZero (Computer)
AlphaZero - Stockfish (2017), London ENG, Dec-04
Spanish Game: Berlin Defense (C65)  ·  0-1

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-12-17  WorstPlayerEver: <talwnbe4>

Lol I was pretty high because of all the medication, when I wrote that.

Well, I'd rather seen the Berlin. Or the Najdorf, but I guess A0 would not take such lines seriously ;)

Dec-12-17  devere: <Tal1949: I am sorry Google- but this game is just ridiculous. Stockfish 8 does not play any of the moves that you claim it does.>

Yes, it seems that this "match" is just a publicity stunt by Google to impress gullible people like me. But now even I have figured out the real game they are playing isn't chess.

Dec-12-17  john barleycorn: <devere: ...

this "match" is just a publicity stunt by Google ...>

I agree. When things look too good, the chandeliers are too awesome ... you are into a scam. Especially, when Kasparov's face shows up.

Dec-13-17  dannygjk: SF still manages it's time well at various time controls. By the way time management is a non-factor at fixed time/move controls. The book-Even when Stockfish followed theory in these published games AZ outplayed SF after the opening. EGTB-Stockfish had lost positions before the EGTB would be of any use. Hash transposition size-Try it yourself give SF a big hash and see how long it takes SF to see that AZ's sacs were sound. Based on what I have seen in the published games my theory why AZ outplayed SF is that AZ has vastly superior move ordering. This is supported by the fact that SF was doing 70,000,000 nps while AZ was doing only 80,000 nps. Even if SF has a huge transposition hash table that won't be enough to compensate for much inferior move ordering. Inferior move ordering results in too much time wasted on pointless variations. SF will miss crucial variations because of that.
Dec-13-17  kjr63: Is ..Bc5 and ..Nd7 an opening novelty?
Dec-13-17  dream31: This is absurd!! I could beat Alphazero - Stockfish is playing like at 2000 Elo level. 13. Ncxe5 is like a novice playing. Maybe Stockfish had a virus created by Google? - allegedly. I think alphazero is playing barely 2509 level.
Dec-13-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Video analysis of this game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WO....
Dec-14-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  andrewjsacks: This game is a ridiculous joke.
Dec-14-17  WorstPlayerEver: Freakshow
Dec-14-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: I wonder if Go players were as delusional as cg kibitzers seem to be.
Dec-14-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <keypusher: I wonder if Go players were as delusional as cg kibitzers seem to be.>

I resemble that remark!

Dec-15-17  dunkenchess: Wrong early sac
Dec-15-17  Scarborough shoal: Computers will crush humans.
Dec-15-17  Scarborough shoal: Stockfish is an i***t.
Dec-16-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  drleper: <Tal1949: I am sorry Google- but this game is just ridiculous. Stockfish 8 does not play any of the moves that you claim it does. 11. Kh1 12. a5 35. Nc4 These are all moves that a 3200 level engine would never play. In fact, 5 out of 28 moves in the middle game (17.8%) are not Stockfish 8 moves, regardless of the time control or lack of opening book. Please do not tamper with the Strength configuration or Contempt- we know what you are doing.>

I would guess that these discrepancies depend on the system producing the moves. I've managed to get Stockfish 8 on my system (Intel i7-5820K, running with 4GB hash and 6 threads) to produce 11.Kh1, 12.a5, and 35.Nc4 as the top choices at various times. That said, those moves did change given a bit more time.

Interestingly, on move 35 Stockfish 8 initially thinks that 35.Rc1 is good enough for a draw, but if you input that move it soon finds 35...c4! and after backing up, it seems that it really can't decide between 35.Rc1, 35.Ng6, or 35.Nc4 (probably because it's already lost). Most likely stronger hardware would more quickly skip over this illusion that 35.Rc1 provides a draw.

Jan-10-18  sankukay50: Rebel recommends 11...Bc1 after 12'35"
Kh1 has never seen
Jan-29-18  dannygjk: Yes it finds 35...c4 after you enter 35.Rc1 because it's one ply further ahead in the game.
Jun-14-18  ThirdPawn: I find it interesting that AlphaZero plays highly defensive as Black when compared to it playing as White. There are no triple exclaim moves, no sacrifices, no throwing away of pawns, etc, at least from the games released. And positions tend to be very closed in the two games released of it playing with Black pieces. Stockfish on the other hand was quite intidimating and confronting with White pieces. I almost couldn't tell who was who.

Perhaps it 'is' White's game... After all, AlphaZero did win 50% of its games as White, but only won 12% of the time with Black pieces. This ratio even held in their 1,200 games.

Jun-14-18  ThirdPawn: In addition, the three wins that stockfish scored against AlphaZero occurred with it playing with White pieces! And like AlphaZero, stockfish had no losses when it played with White pieces. Surely this can't be an anomaly?
Jul-31-18  1d410: If stockfish played chess perfectly it would give the same move regardless of the system it was on.
Dec-20-18  WorstPlayerEver: I kind of thought why not follow the concept of AO myself? Trap a Queen, sac a pawn. Just be cool. Don't worry for check.

33... Re7


click for larger view

My idea was this:

33... Re7 34. Qd5+ Kh8 35. Ra1 Qg6 36. Qd8 Qh5 37. Qxf8+ Kh7 38. g4 Qxg4 39. Qf5+ Qxf5 40. exf5 Re2 41. c3 Rc2 42. d4 cxd4 43. cxd4 Bxf5


click for larger view

Still have to analyze this, but I thought the idea was funny. SFcg 6 secs still plays 33... Qxe5

~~~~~~~~

33... Re7 34. Qxc5 Rxe4 35. Qd5+ Re6 36. g4 Qc6 37. Qxc6 Rxc6


click for larger view

Figured out White can't trap the Bishop in this position. I just sacced a fourth pawn. Who cares. Is that brilliant? Of course not, it's kind of average. The White pieces are not coordinated well. A child could see that. The Black Bishops secure the draw.

Dec-20-18  WorstPlayerEver: Oops see I am playing for AO now.
Dec-20-18  WorstPlayerEver: Don't worry, take a move back then, just kidding. 32... Rd7


click for larger view

Dec-20-18  WorstPlayerEver: After 23... Rb4, I thought the White Queen needed a little more spave, so:


click for larger view

24. Bxd4 cxd4 25. Qxd4 a5 26. f5 Qc6 27. f6 gxf6 28. Rxf6 Rxc4 29. dxc4 Qxe4 30. Qf2


click for larger view

Dec-20-18  WorstPlayerEver: Anyway, it's all about spave. You have to create spave.
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