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Apr-21-23 | | stone free or die: RE: Nepo's bluff (not!)
If you watch the press conference after this game, when asked about the two most critical positions in the game, Nepo of course mentioned the 31...Qh4 move, calling it a "bluff". But when doing some follow up commentary he basically admits overlooking that the king can escape (I think with Ke4 right?) after the long series of checks. He mumbled something about it ~"being hard to see from a distance". Maybe later I'll dig out some links to it, but the take home is that both he and Ding overlooked that White can win - so it wasn't really a true bluff, by my definition at least. |
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Apr-21-23 | | fabelhaft: <he basically admits overlooking that the king can escape (I think with Ke4 right?) after the long series of checks. He mumbled something about it ~"being hard to see from a distance"> I think he said Qh4 was a bluff and that Ke4 was hard to see from a distance, not sure if he was overlooking it or wanting to make the bluff look better :-) |
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Apr-21-23 | | stone free or die: A bluff is when you know you're dead in the water, and try to set a trap (i.e. the bluff) for your opponent to squander their win. There has to be awareness of the situation for it to be a true bluff. Bluffs aren't blunders, because of this awareness - they're deliberate gambles where you know the odds. Nepo actually thought he had a perpetual, so he blundered away his rook. On CT it would be called an <Unsound Sacrifice>. Ding maybe trusted Nepo wouldn't blunder, and didn't push his analysis deep enough. Or maybe Ding also missed it. Sometimes two super-GM's can both miss a blunder, e.g. Carlsen--Anand (what was it? Game 5?). |
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Apr-21-23 | | stone free or die:
Press conference beginning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6... "I was very lucky to bluff with this ...Qh4 move ..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6... ...Qh4 follow-up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6... ~ "When I played it was well like 'I'm very smart' ... [moves] ... I thought it a draw, but then the king escapes in some tricky way ... [moves] ... very hard to spot from distance" |
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Apr-21-23 | | stone free or die: Game 6, move 26 - Carlsen blunders, Anand misses it (and Carlsen eventually wins): Carlsen vs Anand, 2014 . |
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Apr-21-23
 | | plang: That is the example I use when someone says there is no luck in chess. Carlsen would have had a tough time winning that match if he had been punished for his blunder. |
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Apr-21-23
 | | perfidious: <Geoff....This reminds of Carlsen vs Caruana, 2018 when the ex-champ fought like a rat for the draw - and got it but somewhere in there Caruana missed a tablebase mate in 30+ moves and was lampooned for missing it.> <zed....Carlsen blunders, Anand misses it (and Carlsen eventually wins)> To hear 'pundits' maunder on of these occurrences at the highest level, one would think them paragons of perfection who would never put a foot wrong if they were in these spots. What becomes clear, above all, is how little knowledge they truly possess of what it takes to win a game from a strong, determined opponent. Maybe they should get out a little more. |
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Apr-21-23
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Perfidious,
One can try to explain it's not as simple as looking at a computer and comparing it to a player being there. A routine in the computer to take in time trouble and tiredness may give a better guide. A simple nudge to add in a horizon of say 8-10 ply. Then you get a better indication of what a strong player is seeing at that moment. Also a routine to tell the computer it must win (as in a must situation) but that would involve the computer looking for plausible humans errors and ditching what it considered the best moves to set traps. If such a computer could do that some of the traps would be amazingly deep. But they are hamstrung by only looking for the best replies. I was staring at the screen here, on chess24 and my screen on a different computer to note up the game as it happens for 6½ hours today. I was knackered and wanted the game to just end. Without a doubt I was that chess blind and tired I would have walked into one of the traps Nepo set Ding in that game 9 ending. Five game to go. Ding has 3 Whites (but let's not forget Nepo's two White's).
Ideal scenario. Game 14 Nepo still leads one nil. Ding needs to a Kasparov vs Karpov, 1987 and win the very last game. (and then onto see what mood Cassia is in as she and her sister, Lady Luck, decides who wins the tie breaks.) |
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Apr-22-23 | | stone free or die: <<sally> I was staring at the screen here, on chess24 and my screen on a different computer to note up the game as it happens for 6½ hours today. I was knackered and wanted the game to just end.> Remember the discussion on a different forum about wasting the time of an opponent?!? Bless Ding, one of my favorite statements he made in the press conference today was in answer to the question (roughly, from memory) - Q - "What did you think of the knight + pawn ending today?" Ding - "I thought it was easy."
That guy is a sweetheart. |
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Apr-22-23
 | | fredthebear: You don't know HONEST when it smacks you in the mouth. |
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Apr-22-23 | | stone free or die: You who? Who you? Do you do? Please don't. |
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Apr-22-23 | | thegoodanarchist: GOTD title:
"Not Fine Ding a Win" |
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Apr-22-23
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Stone F.D.
This match is the first time I've had the commentary on for any length of time during the games. When they have a break I turn off the adverts by clicking the crossed out trumpet button on my keyboard (which btw I've only recently discovered what it was for. The uncrossed trumpet button turns the sound back on again. Amazing!) I have noticed that Anish Giri uses the word 'preparation' much more than the word 'inspiration.' and have come to the conclusion that the modern player is nothing but a walking talking databank relying on the games and the sweat and research of the other more imaginative players. Here I have in mind Gioachino Greco and Frederick Reinfeld to name but two. So for the next handful of games I am going to have the sound turned off (blessed be the crossed out trumpet button) and instead play in the background some of my recordings from the shipping forecast. |
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Apr-23-23 | | stone free or die: <Sally> I've noticed elsewhere members of the crowd complaining about Giri. I hadn't watched him enough lately to form my own opinion. It's always useful to shop around anywho. |
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Apr-23-23
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Stone,
I like it when Giri slips into anecdote mode. |
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Apr-25-23 | | thegoodanarchist: 32.Kd1 might be the blunder that costs Ding the WC. With only 3 games left, and not much risk-taking the last 2 games, a match win by Nepo is looming closer and closer. It could be like Bill Buckner's error in the 1986 World Series - unforgettable for all the wrong reasons, and haunting him forever. |
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Apr-25-23 | | Petrosianic: With 3 games left, and Ding having White in 2 of them, I wouldn't write his obituary just yet. |
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Apr-25-23 | | thegoodanarchist: < Petrosianic: With 3 games left, and Ding having White in 2 of them, I wouldn't write his obituary just yet.> I didn't. Just said Ian's potential win is getting closer and closer. |
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Apr-25-23 | | Petrosianic: <thegoodanarchist>: <I didn't. Just said Ian's potential win is getting closer and closer.> Comparing him to Bill Bucker before he's even lost is Sharpening The Knives, at the least. |
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Apr-26-23 | | Petrosianic: <thegoodanarchist>: <I didn't. Just said Ian's potential win is getting closer and closer.> Looks like you jinxed it. |
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Apr-27-23 | | thegoodanarchist: <Petrosianic: <thegoodanarchist>: <I didn't. Just said Ian's potential win is getting closer and closer.>
Comparing him to Bill Bucker before he's even lost is Sharpening The Knives, at the least.> Ding had a one-move win and threw away the full point in that game. So I said <It <<could be>> like Bill Buckner's error>. Emphasis on 'could be'. I didn't say it was so. (And Boston could have won game 7. 'Could have', not 'did'.) There is a difference between speculation on what <might> happen (which is what I did) and pronouncements of fact (which is what you are attributing to me). <Looks like you jinxed it.> Well, you attribute powers to me that I don't possess. i will try not to let it go to my head. Or should I send a letter of apology to Ian? ;) |
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Apr-30-23 | | Petrosianic: <thegoodanarchist>: <Well, you attribute powers to me that I don't possess. i will try not to let it go to my head. Or should I send a letter of apology to Ian? ;)> A letter would be good, yes, and make it heartfelt. In the meantime, my headline is "Bill Buckner Wins World Chess Championship". |
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May-02-23 | | fisayo123: This is still my fav game of the match for some reason, even though it was a draw. |
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May-02-23
 | | keypusher: What�s not to love? Nice to look back on this crazy game and know that it didn�t wind up derailing Ding Liren. |
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Jul-14-23 | | generror: Well my favourite is probably game 7 which has even more craziness than this one, going on for 20+ moves. But this one's not far behind. Again chess on the highest level, both players refreshingly not playing it safe, but duking it out, playing crazy openings resulting in complex positions where it's a marvel they both were able to keep it completely for 20 moves. You'd have thought especially Ding would take it easy after game 7, but that guy has nerves of steel and balls of reinforced concrete. Respect to Nepo for swindling his way out of this one. I'm pretty sure he didn't see that he essentially gave his rook away, but once more, both were low on time, this is human chess we're talking about, and this move simply saved his ass in this game, so labeling it as "??" shows a very limited mechanistic understanding of chess. I also love the little retarding moment where for a move or two it looks as if Ding would win the game after all before another "blunder" leads to a well-deserved draw. I'm sure people were saying that Ding is finished by this point -- giving away three wins in two games and whatnot. For me, I think it was this game or the next where I realized that this guy is much tougher than he looks. Just from the fact that he clearly played for a win as if the devastating 7th game had never happened. It was also around here that I realized I wanted him to win, because of all this crazy modern fairy tale of how he even got to sit at this board. |
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