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| Mar-02-09 | | FiveofSwords: Its just that black has a lot of dangerous development which almost kills white at this stage of the opening so white should feel urgently like he needs to catch up. After 10 h4 one natural plan for black would be to ignore it and play Bg7. Now if white plays Bxg5 then Qxe5 and your rook on a1 is problem. Black is winning i think. Same story on move of white's moves. So white would have to deal with that threat, with Bb2 I suppose. But that removes white's control of f4 rather prematurely (before black has been forced to play Nb6) and this is usually bad for him. Black would continue Nf4, and this position looks no fun for white to play since his king feels exposed and black's pieces are starting to swarm around. Maybe a computer can play this way but not me. |
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| Mar-02-09 | | Chigorin: In Starting Out: The Scotch Game John Emms says of 10.h4: "...I certainly can't find an easy path to equality for Black." The example game given is Smeets-Timman 2002. It doesn't appear to be in the CG database unfortunately. The next few moves in the game were: 10.h4 ♗g7 11.♗b2 ♘f4 12.♕e3 h6 13.♘d2 ♘g6 14.♘f3 gxh4 (if 14...g4 then 15.h5) Emms' seems to think Black should play 11...0-0-0 12.♘d2 ♖de8 (12...♘b4 13.0-0-0) which he thinks might equalize. Still, I don't think this is all so one-dimensionally bad for White as you make it sound. |
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| Mar-04-09 | | FiveofSwords: well maybe so, I didnt know emms considered this move...sounds interesting and ill look at it. But im sure its a very new idea and the reason it took a long time for white to consider it would be for the reasons I stated.It might be playable but it would need to have the right idea behind it, and I dont understand the point of h4 if you arent trying to win the g pawn. So maybe its ok but i wouldnt try it until I understand the actual plan behind it. But you see, this is a testament to how impossible it is to exhaust all the interesting ideas in a position, because this is a position ive studied a huge amount and never considered any sort of plan involving the move h4. |
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| Mar-05-09 | | FiveofSwords: concerning the endgame you speak of, Im sure its fine for black, and if white players use the scotch as their main weapon (such as rublevsky) and they actually want to win some games they probably have found various ideas to avoid this. Morozevich, for example, showed an interesting plan, and also people have been playing 10 f4 followed by Qf2 (this is the major point of 9...g5, preventing f4), and im sure there are other possibilities as well. That particular endgame just isnt very promising for white at higher levels or against extremely prepared opponents so you can expect white to avoid it. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | Dredge Rivers: They should name an opening after Jack Daniels!
Or maybe Boone's Farm! :) |
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| Sep-07-09 | | gungorh: Can anyone give me some advise about the below variation.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4
I used to play that opening but then I turned to d4 but as I remember Bc4 has lots of attack variations... |
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| Sep-07-09 | | nescio: <gungorh> It's not clear to me what you are asking. It seems to me that 4.Bc4 is predominantly a transpositional device as the most logical replies lead to well-known positions of other openings, e.g.: 4...Bc5 5.c3 dxc3 6.Nxc3 (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Bc5 6.Bc4) 4...Bc5 5.c3 Nf6 6.cxd4 Bb4+ (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4) 4...Nf6 (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4)
Especially the last variation can lead to quite complicated positions which I have never looked at properly. There was a time that I was lured in such messes so often that I stopped playing 1...e5 altogether. That leaves 4...Bb4+ 5.c3 dxc3 6.0-0, but somehow it doesn't look good for Black. |
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| Oct-25-09 | | timhortons: Opening Explorer theres only 2 choices move on it and the game is an old game http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... 9th move of scotch. sequence on how position was reached with link above 
click for larger view9th.Nc3 is the best option of rybka and has been played more time at gameknot.com database. chessgames.com database offer 9.Nb5 and 9.f3...
sometimes you cant say that following the database line of cg is really good, since some of the lines included in the game was used pre rybka time. |
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| Dec-31-09 | | Stoned Knight: with all the great russian players there have been, I am surprised that there exists a scotch game but not a vodka one. |
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| Dec-31-09 | | Where is my mind: <gungorh> <nescio>
After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4
I don't like playing the complicated positions of the 4...Nf6 variation at all.
4...Nf6 (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4)
I try to avoid them by playing 4...Bc5 and transposing into an Italian,but after 5.0-0 Nf6 6.e5 its a complex Two Knights again. |
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| Jan-05-10 | | nescio: <Where is my mind: I try to avoid them by playing 4...Bc5 and transposing into an Italian,but after 5.0-0 Nf6 6.e5 its a complex Two Knights again.> I suppose so, but is there something wrong with continuing to avoid it by 5.0-0 d6 6.c3 Bg4 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...)? Some very respectable players there, but the setup may be refuted. |
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| Jan-06-10 | | Where is my mind: <1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.0-0 d6 6.c3 Bg4>
Thats much better than what I usually play.I will play over those games.Thanks very much <Nescio>. |
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| Mar-28-10 | | deputy1: Any one know about the Scotch game :Potter variation ?
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 exd4 5 Nxd4 Bc5
5 Nb3 Bb6 I am playing black in e mail game. |
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Feb-16-12
 | | Penguincw: Opening of the Day
Scotch Game w/ 4...Qh4
1.e4 e5 2.♘f3 ♘c6 3.d4 exd4 4.♘xd4 ♕h4
click for larger view |
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| Feb-16-12 | | RookFile: That's good for a few laughs, but if white is willing to gambit the pawn black gets a miserable game. |
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| Jul-11-12 | | e4 resigns: <That's good for a few laughs, but if white is willing to gambit the pawn black gets a miserable game.>
Steinitz was the first to come up with the idea.
It's a respectable move. |
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| Jul-11-12 | | e4 resigns: I should say, first to popularize the move.
It was introduced before. |
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| Mar-22-14 | | FiveofSwords: @e4 resigns...yes it is a 'respectable' move and refuting it isnt technically easy...however rookfile is also technically correct....at computer level play black does get a miserable game if white gambits the pawn and at computer level play black is very likely to lose. |
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| Mar-22-14 | | Mating Net: I second the comments. Black's Qh4 is an Anna Kournikova move, it looks spectacular, but rarely wins. The e4 pawn may not be poisoned, but the juice is not worth the squeeze. Black needs to take advantage and develop. |
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Feb-12-15
 | | offramp: The Göring Gambit. For when you absolutely positively HAVE to kill everyone in the room RIGHT NOW!! |
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Feb-12-15
 | | perfidious: Or Be Killed!! |
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Feb-12-15
| | offramp: I hate to disagree but 4...Qh4 is black's best move. Theory has proved that it is okay, and Steinitz, the first World Champion, thought it was a good move! |
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| Feb-12-15 | | Volmac: <offramp: I hate to disagree but 4...Qh4 is black's best move. Theory has proved that it is okay, and Steinitz, the first World Champion, thought it was a good move!> I agree wholeheartedly. Show Steinitz some respect! I have not been able to prove any white superiority in the main line 4...♕h4 5.♘c3 ♗b4 6.♗e2 ♕xe4 7.♘db5 ♗xc3+ 8.bxc3 ♔d8 9.0-0 ♘f6 
click for larger viewThe question is whether the initiative and Bishop pair is enough compensation for the pawn and structural weakness. I am so far unsuccessful against Fritz in this position. |
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| Feb-12-15 | | Mating Net: Finally some good back and forth regarding 4...Qh4. As a White Scotch player, I find the lines with an early Bc5 & Nc6 more challenging than Qh4. Since the White d pawn is gone, White does not gain time on the Black c5 Bishop with d4. Development is often an issue for Black in quite a few openings. Not so in the Scotch, so IMHO, Black should take advantage of this opportunity and develop much as we were taught way back when. |
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Feb-12-15
 | | WannaBe: <Mating Net> Did not know you like Scotch. I tend to favour this opening when faced with 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 and do wish to study the 500 lines of the Spanish Game. I find ...Qh4 to be trouble-some for me, and I often do not know the Scotch beyond move 5. But if black plays ...c5, I know the Sicilian relatively well, in a manner of speaking. I use Sicilian to answer e4 and KID for everything else as black, and I only use e4 as white in serious games. I do humour meself once in a while by playing the Nimzo-Larsen just for laughs in skittles games. |
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