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Wolf Popert

Number of games in database: 35
Years covered: 1830 to 1842
Overall record: +8 -18 =5 (33.9%)*
   * Overall winning percentage = (wins+draws/2) / total games in the database. 4 exhibition games, blitz/rapid, odds games, etc. are excluded from this statistic.

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 King's Pawn Game (15) 
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   Staunton vs W M Popert, 1840 0-1
   W M Popert vs Staunton, 1841 1-0
   W M Popert vs Staunton, 1840 1-0
   Staunton vs W M Popert, 1840 0-1


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WOLF POPERT
(born Mar-19-1795, died Sep-03-1846, 51 years old) Germany

[what is this?]

Wolf Meyer Popert

http://www.schachbund.de/news/w-m-p...

Last updated: 2024-11-27 12:19:31

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 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 35  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. McDonnell vs W Popert 1-0191830Odds game000 Chess variants
2. W Popert vs McDonnell 1-0231834Odds game000 Chess variants
3. F Slous vs W Popert 1-0321836LondonC44 King's Pawn Game
4. F Slous vs W Popert  1-0341836Casual gameD20 Queen's Gambit Accepted
5. Perigal / Pulling vs W Popert 1-0221837Casual gameC51 Evans Gambit
6. Staunton vs W Popert 0-1271840MatchC00 French Defense
7. Staunton vs W Popert 1-0361840MatchC44 King's Pawn Game
8. W Popert vs Staunton 0-1571840MatchC02 French, Advance
9. G Perigal vs W Popert 0-1261840LondonC51 Evans Gambit
10. Staunton vs W Popert 0-1381840MatchC02 French, Advance
11. Staunton vs W Popert 1-0191840LondonC44 King's Pawn Game
12. Staunton vs W Popert 1-0391840MatchC20 King's Pawn Game
13. W Popert vs Staunton 0-1331840MatchB21 Sicilian, 2.f4 and 2.d4
14. W Popert vs Staunton 1-0381840MatchB32 Sicilian
15. W Popert vs Staunton ½-½561840MatchC45 Scotch Game
16. W Popert vs La Bourdonnais 1-0331840Odds game000 Chess variants
17. W Popert vs Cochrane 0-1191841Casual gameC53 Giuoco Piano
18. Staunton vs W Popert 1-0491841Casual gameC44 King's Pawn Game
19. Cochrane vs W Popert  ½-½311841Casual gameC54 Giuoco Piano
20. Cochrane vs W Popert 1-0201841Casual gameC44 King's Pawn Game
21. Cochrane vs W Popert  1-0271841Casual gameC44 King's Pawn Game
22. Cochrane vs W Popert 1-0261841Casual gameC44 King's Pawn Game
23. Cochrane vs W Popert  1-0211841Casual gameC44 King's Pawn Game
24. G Walker vs W Popert  1-0151841Casual gameC44 King's Pawn Game
25. Cochrane vs W Popert  0-1261841Casual gameC52 Evans Gambit
 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 35  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2) | Popert wins | Popert loses  

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-29-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: It appears that every 40 pages is an issue of the "Deutsche Schachzeitung" (as a printer's line is given every 40 pages in the 1847 volume).

I'm just guessing here, but it would appear that the notice on page 39 that speaks of "Poppert" in the past tense would be in the Jan/Feb issue making it likely that Popert had died in 1846 especially if each issue were published on the odd months (Jan, Mar, May, etc.), however, if the issues were printed in the even months (Feb, Apr, Jun, etc.) it would leave the possibility of Popert dying in early 1847. Can anyone confirm the publication schedule for the Deutsche Schachzeitung in 1847 (odd vs even months)?

Oct-29-15  thomastonk: <jnpope> I am sorry, I've not investigated the publication schedule so far. But when I scrolled through the volumes today, I saw a note by Hirschbach who wrote that this is the first time in four months that he has a chessboard ahead of himself. This note can be found on page 201 of 1847. So, whatever the schedule was, the issues could be published several months later. I think this happened with several chess magazine, Marco's WSZ being the most well-known example. But sometimes also Steinitz's "International Chess Magazine" was many months late.
Oct-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Not sure about the dating, but there is a passage on him here also (to bring it on the table) (pp. 117-118):

https://books.google.no/books?id=I6...

Oct-30-15  thomastonk: <Tabanus: (to bring it on the table) (pp. 117-118)> This is von der Lasa's text, whose content I described yesterday: H W Popert.
Oct-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Well, the walking distance from Fenchurch Street to the Strand is only about 1,5 - 2 km. To judge from Google Maps.

I think Townsend is right. There is no other candidate!

Oct-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Maybe. We should be able to find a H. W. Popert who arrived in England on or before 1834, departed in 1842 and died in 1846/47 and is buried in Hamburg. I'd be happy if we found any one of those three events (arrival, departure, or grave) tied to H. W. Popert.

Until a confirming piece of evidence shows up all we know is a "Popert, H. W. esq." was a subscriber to a book and a William Popert was counted in a census (did they count non-citizens in the British census? Maybe William Popert just was a distant cousin, member of the chess club and citizen) and the visiting Popert (perhaps John as Bachmann gives) was a visiting chess master... there are still too many possibilities and open questions for me at this point.

Oct-31-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Ok, I found some posts by Townsend in a Google Groups archive:

<John Townsend 1/31/12 3:15 AM

In the 1841 census of England is an entry for "William M. Popert", a foreign-born 44-year-old merchant living in Fenchurch Street, in the city of London. (Source: 1841 census, National Archives, HO 107 720/13, f. 16.). I expect that he was born about 1797 somewhere in Hamburg.>

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...

Perhaps Popert had become a citizen. I'm starting to like the William/Wilhelm/Wolf theory much more: Popert being born as Wolf Meyer Popert, and as with Steinitz, became a Wilhelm and eventually a William.

And I have a theory about the "H". Instead of "Herr" maybe someone had confused his profession as part of his name?

Perhaps he was mentioned as "Händler William Popert" and someone assumed his initials were H. W.?

Still, we should be able to find travel or burial information for 1834, 1842, and 1846 somewhere for a W. M. Popert to conclusively settle the mystery.

Oct-31-15  thomastonk: <jnpope> The German part of his biography is too less investigated. I did several things yesterday, but had no time to write a report.

(1) Nowadays there are two Jewish cemeteries in Hamburg (including Altona, which was an independent city back then): one in Altona, and one in Ohlsdorf.

Information on Ohlsdorf can be found here: http://www.jfhh.org/index_e.html. It was opened in 1883, but this doesn't mean that it is without interest; 375 gravestones from other Jewish cemeteries were brought there during the Nazi time. The on-line search gives two Poperts, but both died in the 20th century.

The Jewish Cemetery Altona is much older and very interesting in itself: http://www.jüdischer-friedhof-alton.... It is part of a German project for Jewish cemeteries: http://steinheim-institut.de/wiki/i.... All inscriptions are already digitized! This link http://www.steinheim-institut.de/cg... shows the name list. There are many Poperts, but I didn't find a candidate.

So, at the moment this idea has led nowhere.

(2) Do we know this genealogical tree: http://gw.geneanet.org/silentist?la... ?

No. 15 is William/Wilhelm Popert, but if you follow the link behind the name, then you'll find Winter's Chess History and another message by Tonwsend. Btw, is this the first time we see "Wilhelm" elsewhere?

No. 16 shows the family from the law case, but the child Wolf Meyer is missing. What could that mean? Died in infancy?

(3) I hope this is a promising approach: there is a Popert family chronicle! <"Die Popert-Chronik : Familie Popert in Hamburg und Altona"> by Joachim Grisebach, Hamburg 1988, 94 pages. I have already ordered a copy, but it will take one or two weeks.

---
My thoughts on "H=Händler": merchants from Hamburg call themselfs "Kaufmann" (singular) or "Kaufleute" (plural), see for example http://hamburgerkaufleute.com/. The "ehrbare Kaufmann" (reputable merchant) is a well-known ideal, see e.g. http://www.veek-hamburg.de/. The term "Händler" is used too, but quite restricted. Car dealers are for some reason always "Autohändler", and other "Händler" can be found in small trade, say "Zigarrenhändler".

Oct-31-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: I just discovered that the whole testament made by Samuel Meyer Popert (in 1847) and other papers on the Meyer Wolf Popert (d. 1813) fortune are collected at http://interactive.ancestry.com/170..., about 90 pages.

I clicked through it all, and no mention of any Wolf or William. Meyer Wolf Popert's wife Hanelle died in 1838. They had three children: Samuel Meyer Popert (d. 1851), Joseph and Johann. The two latter still living in 1852.

The tree at http://gw.geneanet.org/silentist?la... has at least two errors then: "Simon Meyer d. 1851" should be Samuel Meyer, and Joseph did not "d. 1838".

https://books.google.no/books?id=4i... (the text from 1805) mentions Wolf Popert and others but I don't understand the German there.

Oct-31-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: And Meyer Wolf Popert (d. 1813) was the only son of Wolf Levin Popert (d. 1791). So Wolf/William may fit in somewhere else, say as the son of Samson Popert, or Moise Popert who has also the right age (on the list at http://gw.geneanet.org/silentist?la...).
Oct-31-15  thomastonk: <Tabanus> I cannot check anything at ance$try.

<They had three children: Samuel Meyer Popert (d. 1851), Joseph and Johann.> Is it possible that only living children were named? A testament written in 1847 would not mention our man, of course. But what is with the other documents?

<(the text from 1805) mentions Wolf Popert and others but I don't understand the German there.> Please see the end of my H W Popert. The text is a mixture of juridical German and Latin, and the names from Levin to Samson are the children of Meyer Wolf Popert.

Oct-31-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <tt> Samuel Meyer Popert's testament is very long, 13 paragraphs and both in German and in English. Dated Hamburg, 21 June 1847. I think the English version is made after his death by the public notary. It mentions his wife "Emilie, born Oppenheim" and "my tree daughters already married": "Friederike, married Schröder, Agnes, married Thöl (?) and Therese, married Brinckmann", and a fourth unmarried youngest daughter, Emma Marie.

I think this must be the family arriving to England in July 1836, cf. <It can also be "S. M. Popert">.

The firm "Popert von Halle" (apparently in Hamburg) and "my partner Mr. Joel Aron von Halle" is also mentioned.

<Is it possible that only living children were named?> Yes, I should think so. But too late today, I'll review again tomorrow.

Nov-01-15  thomastonk: With the name <von Halle> appearing more often, I think I should add something about the paragraph on page 67, i.e. https://books.google.no/books?id=4i.... It states that Meyer Wolf Popert relinquished his claim on the heir in favor of his children; and on the other side two men became wardens of his children, one of them <Wolf Elias von Halle>, the other one Levin Abraham Goldschmidt.
Nov-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: After the testament comes various testimonies to it, and to the death of Samuel Meyer, and to the true translations into English, and then (as I see now) a joint letter from Joseph and Johann Popert (partly cited earlier):

<And Whereas the said Meyer Wolff Popert was late of the City of Hamburgh, Merchant, and died on the sixteenth day of January one thousand eight hundred and thirteen Intestate leaving behind him Hanelle Popert, Widow, his Relict, Samuel Meyer Popert, Joseph Popert and Johann Popert his natural lawful and only children and together the only persons entitled to his Personal Estate and Effects. And whereas the said Hanelle Popert is since dead as also the said Samuel Popert without having administered at least in England to the Effects of the said Meyer Wolff Popert, And whereas the said Joseph Popert and Johann Popert are now residing at the City of Hamburgh

Now know all Men by these Present that we the said Joseph Popert and Johann Popert the surviving natural and lawful children of the said Meyer Wolff Popert for divers good causes and considerations us thereunto especially moving do hereby nominate constitute and appoint Louis Liskenne of Nr 3 Torrington Street, Torringtom Square in the County of Middlesex Gentleman our true and lawful Attorney for us and in our names and on our behalf to appear before the Right Honorable Stephen Lushington, Doctor of Laws ...> and a great deal more, but hard to understand. It is signed Joseph and Johann Popert, 3 Sept. 1852.

Nov-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: So the two brothers trusted everything to this Louis Liskenne.

Now follows another long note where Liskenne appears before the Consistory Court of London applying for his right to administer Meyer Wolf Poperts English leftovers, one hundred pounds stock in the Bank of England (worth 300 pounds according to another form) on behalf of Joseph and Johann, since nobody have made claim to these English stocks since 1809 and until 1850 (i. e. when the dying Samuel made his brothers aware of them).

Phew. With reservations, the text is difficult. I'll try to read further.

Nov-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: I find no German letter from Joseph and Johann. It is in English and starts awkwardly after the first paragraph cited above. It is apparently made with ready-made signatures (Joseph Popert, Johann Popert). These are then overwritten with another pen (but it seems to be the same names underneath), presumably by Joseph and/or Johann themselves.

Liskenne appeared before the court only a few days later, not before Lushington but rather Frederick Thomas Pratt, who is "Doctor of Laws and Surrogate in his Chambers", and got his signature.

There is more, but probably not relevant to our man.

Nov-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: The "Belgium, Antwerp Police Immigration Index, 1840-1930" has this entry: <59898 Popert Wolff alias William>. No date given.

http://interactive.ancestry.com/979...

Nov-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Unfortunately, that record is from 1886. Popert, Wolff, alias William, born 1861, his father Louis-Abraham Popert born in Altona 1816.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3... should work, try 940 in the Image box.

Nov-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: FamilySearch has a record I can't find elsewhere:

Emily Popert, 45, living in St Mary Lambeth, Surrey, England, in 1841, together with foreign-born John, Agnes, and Gabriela Thale, and Katherine Mortel.

Nov-02-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Lots of interesting stuff, hopefully <"Die Popert-Chronik : Familie Popert in Hamburg und Altona"> can help solve the mystery.
Nov-02-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: I think Emily Popert may be Emilie, the wife of Samuel Meyer Popert. Living together with her daughter Agnes Thale (= Thöl).

I think we better wait for the book :)

Nov-14-15  edo.chess: An interesting discussion and investigation! Since I have John Townsend's two books, I can at least fill in the information on Popert to be found there. The books are:

Notes on the Life of Howard Staunton (self-published, 2011)

Historical Notes on Some Chess Players (self-published, 2014)

Only 100 copies of each was printed, apparently, but you might be able to get copies from the author, or from Tony Peterson at http://www.chessbooks.co.uk .

In the book on Staunton (p.44), Townsend says that 'W. Popert' appears in the records of the London Chess Club (to be found in the London Metropolitan Archives). On 5 Nov. 1835, he is listed as proposing a new member to the club. Townsend also points out his discovery of 'William M. Popert' in the 1841 census and tentatively identifies him as the chess player.

In Townsend's second book, 'Historical Notes...', he has a section on 'William M. Popert' on pp.8-10. Here he says "a fuller look at the club's records has turned suspicion into certainty" (p.9). He says that 'W. Popert' appears in earlier records, including his election as a member on 5 Aug. 1830. His address is given as 1 Leadenhall Street in another entry (presumably also in 1830?). 'W. Popert' appears many other times in the records, but from 1839 until 1841/42 his name is given as 'W.M. Popert' (pp.9-10). Townsend says (p.10) that Popert lived in Fenchurch St. in 1841. Regarding William Greenwood Walker's listing of 'H.W. Popert', Townsend points out that Walker's book had numerous errors.

Townsend's book goes into more detail, but the above are the main points for purposes of identification. There's a lot of interesting material on other early players in the book, too (e.g. Sarratt), and I recommend it.

Nov-25-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <I have already ordered a copy, but it will take one or two weeks.> 3,5 weeks now!
Dec-11-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: Are they still writing that book?
Jan-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: I have found a John Popert who played some chess, but he lived beyond 1846/1847 into the 1870s and wasn't very strong (and I find no evidence he ever visited London). So either Bachmann confused the "MM John and Popert" line or he assumed John Popert was Staunton's opponent in the 1840s.

I was also able to run down the Wolff Levin Popert family tree (much like thomastonk did) as well as the tree of a Philip Popert (both families spent time in London before 1845). Neither tree produces a William M. Popert or a H. W. Popert.

At this point I am now satisfied that Bachmann's "John" is wrong. Coupled with Townsend finding a W. Popert in the London Chess Club archives I am now reasonably convinced William M. Popert was Staunton's opponent and not a John Popert (per Bachmann) or H. W. Popert (the listed subscriber).

As for H. W. Popert, it is either an error as Townsend suspects, or perhaps H. W. Popert was just a relative who wanted a copy of the book? We won't know for certain until someone tracks down the William M. Popert family tree to see if a H. W. Popert turns up.

I would still like to find a birth/death certificate (or grave marker) for William M. Popert so we can solidify some dates on this mysterious man.

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