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|Sep-27-04|| ||aw1988: Hehehehehe: http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp... |
|Feb-06-05|| ||csmath: I was testing the new engine Deep Junior 9 and my impression is that this is not very "smart" program, as compared to Shredder 8. The evaluations are very inconsistent (similar to Shredder though) which is frankly very annoying. The depth is considerable but it seems there is too much prunning in it.
I am surprised that this would be a WC for machines and hopefully Shredder 9 brings the bacon back to Shredder. |
|Mar-04-05|| ||csmath: I finally got my first win with Junior 9 against a dual Dell 2 x Intel Xeon 3.06 server using Deep Shredder 9. The end of the game was played with Shredder since I failed to trust Junior completely but the opening and the middlegame was Junior 9.
This Sicilian line "supposed" to be drawish variation. |
ICC 45 30
Internet Chess Club
White: CSMath (2853 Elo)
Black: olorin (2749 Elo)
B34 Sicilian: accelerated fianchetto, modern variation
1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 cxd4
4. Nxd4 g6
5. Nc3 Bg7
6. Be3 Nf6
7. Nxc6 bxc6
8. e5 Ng8
9. Bd4 Nh6
10. e6 O-O
11. Bxg7 Kxg7
12. Qd4+ f6
13. exd7 Bxd7
14. O-O-O Bf5
15. h3 Qxd4
16. Rxd4 Rfd8
17. Ra4 Nf7
18. g4 Bd7
19. Bg2 a6
20. Ne4 Bc8
21. Nc5 Ra7
22. Rd1 Rxd1+
23. Kxd1 h5
24. gxh5 gxh5
25. Rh4 Kg6
26. Bf3 Bf5
27. Rxh5 Ra8
28. Rh4 Ne5
29. Be2 a5
30. Kd2 Rd8+
31. Kc3 Nf7
32. Ra4 Ng5
33. h4 Rd5
34. Nd3 Ne4+
35. Rxe4 Bxe4
36. Nf4+ Kg7
37. Nxd5 cxd5
38. Bd1 e5
39. Kb3 Bg2
40. Ka4 d4
41. Kxa5 e4
42. Be2 f5
43. Kb4 f4
44. Kc4 f3
45. Bxf3 exf3
46. Kxd4 Bh3
47. b4 Kf6
48. Kc5 Ke7
49. b5 Kd8
50. Kb6 Bd7
51. a4 Ke7
52. a5 Kd8
53. c4 Ke7
54. c5 Be6
55. a6 Kf6
56. a7 Ke5
57. a8=Q Kf6
58. Qxf3+ Ke5
59. Qe3+ Kf6
60. Qxe6+ Kxe6
61. c6 Ke5
62. h5 Ke4
63. c7 Kd3
64. c8=Q Ke2
65. h6 Ke1
66. h7 Kf1
67. h8=Q Kg1
68. Qch3 Kxf2
69. Qe5 Kg1
|Jun-05-05|| ||ryanpd: csmath I think you may find that junior's evaluations are better if you give it more time to think. Shredder is more selective, which means it arrives at better moves faster (<30 seconds), but at tournament time controls, I believe Junior will outperform it.|
I'm creating a website comparing various engines to this end, actually. More later...
|Jun-05-05|| ||Dionyseus: Playchess's Chess Engine Popularity rank puts Deep Junior 9 at 10th most popular with a total of 6617 games. As for elo strength, DJ9 has an average of 2662, the second highest. |
Deep Shredder 9 is ranked 3 most popular with 27412 games played. As for elo strength, DS9 is first place with an average of 2670.
So how are the non-"Deep" versions fairing in comparison? Well Junior 9 is ranked 13th most popular and 17th in elo rank with 2569 average.
Shredder 9 is ranked most popular engine with a whopping 51,935 games played. S9 is ranked 5th in elo with an average of 2641.
|Jun-06-05|| ||ryanpd: Interesting stuff. How are those statistics genereated? What does it mean to be "most popular"? Shredder is definitely better at fast chess than Junior, for example- and since most play over the internet is at faster time controls, I can see Shredder winning.|
|Aug-22-05|| ||Bartleby: So do any users here own Junior 9? How does it compare analytically to the evaluation likes of Fritz, Shredder, Hiarcs, ChessTiger, and other such programs? I've been considering buying it because the grapeville boasts of Junior's superior understanding of speculative sacrifices and pressing the initiative, even at the expense of material, like an electronic Tal or Spielmann. Can anyone confirm?|
|Aug-28-05|| ||ryanpd: <Bartleby> I only ever use Shredder and Junior for analysis. I find Fritz is much more short-sighted and materialistic, and relies too heavily on its ability to steer the game into the kind of positions it is good at. Shredder and Junior are great for analysing human games.|
The one problem with Junior is that it needs a lot of time. You need to give it at a bare minimum, 60 seconds to look at each position. Shredder is much faster.
|Aug-29-05|| ||csmath: Shredder "deep" version is better than Junior "deep" version. Shredder has many weaknesses though. It does not play well with pawns at all. It does not know how to defend against pawn rush, which is demonstrated in many games (check the one against Zappa in Iceland), regularly disregard bad pawn structures, and in particular very often castles into a pawn rush (I've seen that in both Sicilian and Caro-Kann). It is sometimes easy to beat it that way. Junior on the other hand, has some extra aggressive character that, sometimes, makes extremely stupid and anti-positional moves, in search of a tactical attack.
Amateur engine Fruit is now better than either Shredder or Junior. Zappa "deep" version seems to be better but since it has not been properly tested, tough to know.|
Fritz is weaker than any of these.
|Sep-29-05|| ||BishopBerkeley: There is a separate message board for Deep Junior (Computer) , just for everyone's information!|
(: ♗ Bishop Berkeley ♗ :)
|Sep-29-05|| ||BishopBerkeley: <csmath> In examining the PGN files from WCCC 2005 (at http://www.ru.is/wccc05/default.asp... ), I note that in some rounds Junior is referred to as "Deep Junior" and in some (most) rounds, it is referred to as "Junior".|
In your opinion, which of the two would be the better designation? I'm assuming that if they're using a multi-processor system, they are running Deep Junior, wouldn't that seem to be correct?
Thanks in advance.
(: ♗ Bishop Berkeley ♗ :)
|Mar-22-06|| ||dakgootje: What about letting it play versus Junior Tay ?|
Junior vs Junior ;-)
|Jun-01-06|| ||Dr. B: junior won the ccc 2006!|
|Jun-05-06|| ||Manuel G. Vergara: What about creating the III?|
|Jun-07-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Congrats to Junior!!!
Winning the 2006 WCC was an impressive result. (When this software comes out for retail, I definitely want to purchase a copy.)
|Jun-07-06|| ||NakoSonorense: o_O Isnt it better to congratulate the developers of Junior instead? I mean, it's just a chess program (or computer, whatever.)|
|Aug-01-06|| ||Ness: Junior 10 says pre-order due by august fourth. Does anyone know when this will be available or released?|
|Feb-22-08|| ||notyetagm: F Amonatov vs I Nepomniachtchi, 2008|
Final position after 25 ♕g7xf7 1/2-1/2 ???
click for larger view
In the final position above, after 25 ♕g7xf7, the players agreed to a draw.
But http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail... says that 25 ... ♘d5-e3!! wins outright for Black!
<Draw agreed. But ChessBase running the Junior engine brings clarity: 25...Ne3 wins for Black! Nepomniachtchi missed an opportunity to clinch the tournament and win a full point ahead of the field.>
Position after 25 ... ♘d5-e3!!
click for larger view
When I looked at this move with <Fritz 5.32> it saw only a small advantage for Black, like 0.50 .
Could someone with the most recent <Junior/Deep Junior> engine please post the analysis of this winning move 25 ... ♘d5-e3!! that both of the 2600s playing this game missed?
|Mar-08-08|| ||PinnedPiece: Odd.... How could the results (games) of a 1994 program be in any way comparable to games played by a program with the same name in 2007/8?|
Seems to me there's something unclear or deceptive about this grouping....
|Mar-24-08|| ||Brettwith2ts: <pinnedpiece> well, this analogy may be a stretch, but how are games of, say, Carlsen in 2000 and 2001 comparable to his games in 2007 and 2008? And yet we still have some of his early games preserved in the database (like this one that would never happen today: C Ribbegren vs Carlsen, 2001 )|
Also, it helps to show how much the engines have "grown" and "learned" since they were "young".
|Mar-25-08|| ||timhortons: i dont know if these is the same junior computer that play in icc but i play with her just know and using nakamuras method of blockade i beat her on time, im a very poor bullet player but still at icc the pool is full of fishes , the poor machine at 2600 could not break through and think to long and lost on time[Event "ICC 1 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[ICCResult "White forfeits on time"]
[Opening "Lengfellner system"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d6 3. Be3 Ne7 4. Nc3 Nd7 5. Nf3 b6 6. Be2 h6 7. h3 g6 8. O-O
Bg7 9. Re1 a6 10. a4 Bb7 11. Bc4 Nb8 12. d5 e5 13. b3 Nd7 14. Bc1 Ng8 15.
Rb1 Ne7 16. Kh2 Qc8 17. Bd2 Qd8 18. Ra1 Qc8 19. Be3 Qd8 20. g3 Qc8 21. Qd2
Qd8 22. Rg1 Qc8 23. Rad1 Qd8 24. b4 Qc8 25. Bd3 Qd8 26. Ra1 Qc8 27. Rh1 Qd8
28. Rab1 Qc8 29. Rhe1 Qd8 30. Ra1 Qc8 31. Reb1 Qd8 32. Rd1 Qc8 33. Ne1 Qd8
34. Rab1 Qc8 35. Ng2 Qd8 36. Re1 Qc8 37. Ra1 Qd8 38. f3 Qc8 39. Rg1 Qd8 40.
Rgb1 Qc8 41. Rf1 Qd8 42. Rfd1 Qc8 43. Ne2 Qd8 44. Rab1 Qc8 45. Nc3 Qd8 46.
Rg1 Qc8 47. Rh1 Qd8 48. Rhe1 Qc8 49. Re2 Qd8 50. Rf2 Qc8 51. Rg1 Qd8 52.
Rff1 Qc8 53. Rb1 Qd8 54. Ne2 Qc8 55. Nc1 Qd8 56. a5 Qc8 White forfeits on
<junior 10.1, 4 gigabyte of ram , table bases 4 and 5>
|Mar-27-08|| ||timhortons: i beat her on clock again in bullet chess usin nakamuras method of blockade(hippo), i suspect its tester is running her on a slow computer at icc, she had a total of 981 game at icc with 41 loss and 8 draw on bullet chess, i claim 2 wins against her in bullet|
|Mar-02-09|| ||WhiteRook48: have you ever heard of Senior? :D|
|Nov-27-11|| ||zluria: Congats to Junior for winning the 2011 WCCC!|
|Jul-11-17|| ||Whitehat1963: I think Junior is going down for the count. The question is will he take Jared, Ivanka, and Agent Orange with him.|
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