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| Mar-15-11 | | MrMelad: Yhea AVRO38, Einstein is a hoax lol :)))) |
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| Mar-15-11 | | Chesschatology: <AVRO38>
According to Wikipedia:
"Poincaré's work in the development of special relativity is well recognised,[20] though most historians stress that despite many similarities with Einstein's work, the two had very different research agendas and interpretations of the work.[24] Poincaré developed a similar physical interpretation of local time and noticed the connection to signal velocity, but contrary to Einstein he continued to use the ether-concept in his papers and argued that clocks in the ether show the "true" time, and moving clocks show the local time. So Poincaré tried to keep the relativity principle in accordance with classical concepts, while Einstein developed a mathematically equivalent kinematics based on the new physical concepts of the relativity of space and time.[25][26][27][28][29] While this is the view of most historians, a minority go much further, such as E.T. Whittaker, who held that Poincaré and Lorentz were the true discoverers of Relativity.[30]" |
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| Mar-15-11 | | Chesschatology: Also from Wikipedia:
"By 1907 Einstein had framed the fundamentals of the theory of gravity, but then struggled for nearly 8 years with a confounding problem of putting the theory into final form.[26] By early summer 1915, Hilbert's interest in physics had focused him on general relativity, and he invited Einstein to Göttingen to deliver a week of lectures on the subject.[27] Einstein received an enthusiastic reception at Göttingen.[28] Over the summer Einstein learned that Hilbert was also working on the field equations and redoubled his own efforts. During November 1915 Einstein published several papers culminating in "The Field Equations of Gravitation" (see Einstein field equations). Nearly simultaneously David Hilbert published "The Foundations of Physics", an axiomatic derivation of the field equations (see Einstein–Hilbert action). Hilbert fully credited Einstein as the originator of the theory, and no public priority dispute concerning the field equations ever arose between the two men during their lives[29]" |
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| Mar-15-11 | | Chesschatology: And similar readings on Lorentz also falsify your claims! <AVRO38> you are either a troll or you didn't do your research very well! |
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| Mar-15-11 | | AVRO38: <Chesschatology> there is a third option i.e. that you're an idiot that relies on Wikipedia for information! You have not addressed the facts that I provided.
1) E=MC^2 was published 5 years before Einstein. Who cares what Poincaré was working on when he discovered this incredible law of nature. 2) Lorentz won the Nobel Prize for Relativity, not Einstein. 3) Hilbert published the equations of General Relativity first. I don't care if he never accused Einstein of theft, the fact remains that Hilbert gave the world the equations of General Relativity. When Einstein published them the reaction was "tell us something we don't already know." |
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| Mar-15-11 | | BobCrisp: <Was <Einstein> A Plagiarist?> http://www.straightdope.com/columns... |
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| Mar-15-11 | | MrMelad: AVRO38, you are an idiot. <Chesschatology> addressed all of your points. Everything Einstein touched turned instantly to gold, there is even the Einstein summing technique of infinite sums, his outstanding and phenomenal contributions to quantum mechanics over a very long period of time and conceiving the general idea of a gauge theory. But above all he demonstrated his capacity to think deep in quotes, papers, books, science and philosophy. You are just a tiny troll. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | haydn20: It might be worthwhile to consult Isaacson, <Einstein: His Life and Work> in the section "The Race to General Relativity, 1915," which gives a very full and up-to-date account of the Hilbert controversy. I think you will find it quite fair scholarship, with ample references for both sides. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | haydn20: The first appearance of E = mc^2 is in Einstein's paper in the Sept. 1905 Annalen der Physik, "Does the Inertia of a Body Depend on Its Energy Content?" If one uses the consevation of (relativistic) momentum along with the Lorentz transformations, one may with high-school algebra derive the eq., but without the physical concepts behind it, this is an empty formal exercise. |
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Mar-15-11
 | | keypusher: <3) Hilbert published the equations of General Relativity first. I don't care if he never accused Einstein of theft, the fact remains that Hilbert gave the world the equations of General Relativity. When Einstein published them the reaction was "tell us something we don't already know."> Can you give contemporary sources for this reaction?
<3) The equations of General Relativity (which overturned Newton's conception of gravity) were first published by David Hilbert (1915). Einstein was widely accused of plagiarism at the time after publishing his own paper.> Can you give contemporary citations for these widespread accusations? |
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| Mar-15-11 | | haydn20: Poincare was interested in the relativity of motion and had done some cursory work in that direction. He admitted that he did not have the nerve to make the logical leap necessary to follow this up. It is amusing that Poincare's letter of recommendation, along with that of Marie Curie, secured Einstein his first academic position! |
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| Mar-15-11 | | haydn20: A nice account of the rel. betw. Poincare's and Einstein's work, and its general background, may be found in <Einstein's Clocks, Poincare's Maps> by Peter Galeson. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | shach matov: In regard to Hilbert publishing the GR equations: about a week prior to his publication Hilbert attended one of Einstein's lectures on GR where the latter presented his theory and explained that the theory will be complete very shortly and that all he is missing is some purely mathematical details of the final field equations of GR. Hilbert being one of the great mathematicians was able to use his knowledge to derive the equations a few days before Einstein. It's important to realize that Hilbert was hardly an expert of GR and did not even have to know much (if any) of the physical detailed of GR to derive the final field equations. Thus there's really no controversy: the theory of GR is Einstein's alone, he was the sole creator of this masterpiece of science. Einstein and Hilbert derived the final field equations independently (indeed they used different methods) and it's simply immaterial who did it first. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | AVRO38: <The first appearance of E = mc^2 is in Einstein's paper in the Sept. 1905 Annalen der Physik, "Does the Inertia of a Body Depend on Its Energy Content?"> This is like claiming that John Adams was the first U.S. President. It's just flat out false. E=MC^2 is Poincare's baby and he published it in 1900 a full 5 years before Einstein. If you want to dispute this you can do so at the next Flat Earth Society meeting. Everyone keeps avoiding the 800 pound gorilla in the room which is Hendrik Lorentz, the man credited (and rightly so) by the Nobel committee for the discovery of Relativity. Einstein had a global PR network on his side, but Poincare, Lorentz, and Hilbert were the real brains behind Relativity. The facts speak for themselves. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | TheFocus: I agree with <AVRO38>. Einstein simply used other peoples work. I thought everyone knew this? Einstein was NOT the original. Some people will argue ignorance even when the bloody truth is sitting in their laps. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | rilkefan: I never expected joining a chess site would expose me to so many nutso conspiracy pushers. Probably there's a thread here about how the moon landings were faked, and how fluoridation is a government mind-control plot. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | Jim Bartle: "Probably there's a thread here about how the moon landings were faked, and how fluoridation is a government mind-control plot." That's at Malcolm Armstrong |
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| Mar-15-11 | | TheFocus: Of course.
The Earth is flat. Except for those pesky hills.
The moon landings were filmed in the Arizona desert. I could tell from the cacti and gila monsters. Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are real and should be worshipped as gods. Dogs and cats can talk, but not to each other. Or humans. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | shach matov: <avro>
Didn't you also for many days argue that Kasparov was not a great player, and said things like: <St. Petersburg 1914, New York 1924, Nottingham 1936, AVRO 1938, Zurich 1953 etc.. were "Super Tournaments". I don't consider tournaments with Short, Gelfand, Polgar, and Van Wely to be "Super Tournaments".Kasparov would have finished near the bottom of all the tournaments I listed> and now you moved to Einstein:)
<Everyone keeps avoiding the 800 pound gorilla in the room which is Hendrik Lorentz> Nobody ignores Lorentz's contributions. you yourself started this meaningless controversy and then claim that we're "ignoring" Lorentz's work. First you accuse us of saying that 2+2=5, then you say that we're wrong since 2+2=4, and proclaim yourself a genius:). Very dishonest. Each generation of scientists bases their discoveries on the work of their predecessors. Indeed Einstein had great respect for Lorentz and considered him to be one of his teachers. In fact Galileo's was the first to propose the principle of relativity and so shall we follow your example and call Lorentz an impostor and plagiarist? He based his theories on Galileo and Newton as Einstein based his work on Newton and Lorentz. <E=MC^2 is Poincare's baby and he published it in 1900 a full 5 years before Einstein.> First, Poincare used classical physics to arrive at the result and the interpretation was not completely correct. Einstein's derivation of the equation was based on his relativity theory, which is considered to be more precise than classical physics. If relativity was never discovered it's possible that Poincare's derivation would forever be seen as simply one of many obscure physical results for physics textbooks. All great scientists "stood on the shoulders of giants": Einstein never denied that Newton, Leronetz, and Mach, among others, were his teachers. And although he himself would never say this but we have to: he was the greatest giant in the history of physics. |
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Mar-15-11
| | keypusher: <AVRO38> Speaking of ignoring things... <3) Hilbert published the equations of General Relativity first. I don't care if he never accused Einstein of theft, the fact remains that Hilbert gave the world the equations of General Relativity. When Einstein published them the reaction was "tell us something we don't already know."> Can you give contemporary sources for this reaction?
<3) The equations of General Relativity (which overturned Newton's conception of gravity) were first published by David Hilbert (1915). Einstein was widely accused of plagiarism at the time after publishing his own paper.> Can you give contemporary citations for these widespread accusations? |
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| Mar-15-11 | | Marmot PFL: In fact Einstein was not even a real physicist, merely a patent clerk. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | BobCrisp: I suggest interested parties check out the book, <Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist>, that the <Straight Dope> column cited: http://www.amazon.com/Albert-Einste... Or, to similar effect, here:
<THE MANUFACTURE AND SALE OF SAINT EINSTEIN> http://www.jewishracism.com/SaintEi...
I've never heard of <Christopher Jon Bjerknes> before (honest! I don't travel in WN circles), but I'm tempted to waste some of my precious time and delve into this, even if it means ignoring <Bartle>'s <TPM> re-posts for awhile. Whilst other posters have predictably, if understandably, attacked <AVRO30>'s characterisation of <Einstein> as a <fraud>, I'm more interested in the charge that <Einstein> has been the beneficiary of a brilliantly successful, ethnically-inspired propaganda campaign. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | shach matov: <BobCrisp>
I suggest that if you like to be taken seriously - stop reading fascist sites and present their opinions as evidence. I can find you plenty of their sites where they claim that Michal Jordan was in fact a white Aryan guy who had an unknown illness that made his skin look black. Amongst his many other revolutionary contributions, Einstein created the special and general relativity which completely overturned our previous understanding of the physical universe. His discoveries were on par with the Copernican revolution and virtually unprecedented in the history of science; that's why he was so famous. The fact that the "aryans" felt a severe sense of intellectual inferiority compared to Einstein doesn't mean that he should not have been famous. It's not always easy to accept the fact that so many members of a tiny ethnic minority are so much more successful than 90% of the majority. This breeds jealousy which is a nasty trait. "If my theory of relativity is proven successful, Germany will claim me as a German and France will declare that I am a citizen of the world. Should my theory prove untrue, France will say that I am a German and Germany will declare that I am a Jew." |
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| Mar-15-11 | | BobCrisp: <It's not always easy to accept the fact that so many members of a tiny ethnic minor are so much more successful than 90% of the majority. This breeds jealousy which is a nasty trait.> Agreed, which is why there is so much anti-British sentiment in the world. I don't know if it's true but there's a story that <Einstein> kept three pictures on his study wall: <Newton>, <Michael Faraday> and <James Clark Maxwell>. I think you'll find that all three were British and, by modern standards, <Christian fundamentalists>. |
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| Mar-15-11 | | micartouse: <I've never heard of <Christopher Jon Bjerknes> before (honest!)> Better known for his enduring pillar of scholarship: How the Jews Turned Whites into Vampires in Order to Steal Their Everlasting Souls. |
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