< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 19 OF 94 ·
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Sep-12-17
 | | al wazir: Next question: If a, b, c, and d are positive integers such that a^3 + b^3 = c^3 + d^3, can c = d, other than in the trivial case a = b = c = d? That is, are there three distinct positive integers a, b, and c such that a^3 + b^3 = 2c^3 ? |
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Sep-12-17
 | | al wazir: There's a reason I put it that way. I ran the same code that generated the 20 examples above out to n=1000 and found no examples with a, b, and c satisfying that relation. So if there are any, a^3 + b^3 must be greater than one trillion. |
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Sep-12-17 | | john barleycorn: <pride of princeton> Look up the the Euler/Binet formulae and see for yourself why a^3+b^3=2*c^3 is not possible in the positive integers. |
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Sep-12-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn: Look up the the Euler/Binet formulae and see for yourself why a^3+b^3=2*c^3 is not possible in the positive integers.> Look it up??? That would be cheating. |
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Sep-12-17 | | john barleycorn: hahaha how come you bring that up? I know it is hard to discover America a second time. But why are you giving links and sources for "everything under the sun" on Rogoff and be so "original" here? |
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Sep-12-17 | | john barleycorn: a=133, b=134, c=158, and d=59 is the smallest integral solution to a^4 + b^4 = c^4 + d^4. |
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Sep-15-17 | | johnlspouge: < <al wazir> wrote: Time's up. Here are the next 20: > I appreciate raw fodder for thought. You have provided me with some critical tidbits in the past, so my thanks are overdue. I am simply agape that solutions of
a^3 + b^3 = c^3 + d^3
are so commonplace. |
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Sep-15-17 | | john barleycorn: Is this the smallest solution to
a^3 + b^3 = c^3 + d^3 = e^3 + f^3 with a,b,c,d,e, and f being distinct positive integers? 70^3 + 560^3 = 98^3 + 552^3 = 315^3 + 525^3
This one is fun to figure out:
121179^3 + 969360^3 = 545275^3 + 908775^3 =
342738^3 + 955512^3 = 336455^3 + 956305^3 |
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Sep-15-17
 | | al wazir: <johnlspouge: I am simply agape that solutions of a^3 + b^3 = c^3 + d^3
are so commonplace.>
There are 1601 solutions with a, b, c, d less than or equal to 1000. That took 15 or 20 minutes to run on my antiquated dual-core 3.1 GHz desktop, so the code would have taken more than a week to check all the cases up to 10,000 (and it would have overstuffed my buffer with the printout and even using 64-bit integer arithmetic would have generated fixed-point overflows). So I modified it just to look for solutions to the equation a^3 + b^3 = 2c^3, and as I said, there aren't any. |
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Sep-15-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn>: No: 315^3 + 525^3 = 198^3 + 552^3 = 70^3 + 560^3 = 175959000, whereas
255^3 + 414^3 = 228^3 + 423^3 = 167^3 + 436^3 = 87539319. There may be others even smaller, but the way I formatted my printout they're not easy to find by eyeballing. However, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxic..., that is indeed the smallest. |
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Sep-15-17 | | john barleycorn: <al wazir> thanks for the corrections and the link. |
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Sep-15-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn>: The final expression you wrote can't be correct. Look at the rightmost digits: ...9 + ...0 = ...5 + ...5 = ...2 + ...8 = ...5 + ...5. This is clearly false. Maybe the first member of the equation or the exponents should be changed? |
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Sep-15-17 | | john barleycorn: right, typo. 121170^3 |
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Sep-15-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn: right, typo. 121170^3.> It's still not right. I checked the *three* least significant digits in each expression. All are of the form ...000 except the second member: ...275^3 + ...775^3 = ...250.
(Sorry I can't tell you more. My hand calculator can't deal with 20-digit numbers.) |
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Sep-15-17 | | john barleycorn: the second member has also 000 as last 3 digits. 912655621660656000= 545275^3 + 908775^3
but it is wrong nonetheless |
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Sep-15-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn: the second member has
also 000 as last 3 digits.> No, it doesn't. 545275 = 545,000 + 275 and 908775 = 908,000 + 775. 275^3 = 20796875 and 775^3 = 465484375.
Hence
545275^3 = 1000s + 275^3 = 1000s + 20796875 = 1000s' + 875, where s is an undetermined whole number and s' = s + 20796; and
908775^3 = 1000t + 775^3 = 1000t + 465484375 = 1000t' + 375, where t is some undetermined whole number and t' = t + 465484. So 545275^3 + 908775^3 = 1000(s' + t') + 875 + 375 = 1000u + 250, where u = s' + t' + 1.
The last three digits are therefore 250. |
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Sep-15-17 | | john barleycorn: I gave you the numbers my spreadsheet gave me and told you it is wrong. don't know why. |
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Sep-15-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn: I gave you the numbers my spreadsheet gave me and told you it is wrong. don't know why.> Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were disagreeing. I was thinking that maybe the numbers are too big (too many digits) for your spreadsheet, just as they are too big for my hand calculator to calculate exactly. If your spreadsheet works with 64-bit arithmetic, then the biggest number it can handle correctly (assuming one bit for a ± sign) is 2^63 ≈ 9.2 x 10^18. But 908775^3 is smaller than that and three of the other numbers that it apparently calculated correctly are greater than 908775, so that explanation can't be right. I worked around this problem in my Fortran code by expanding the cubes using (a + b)^3 = a^3 + 3a^2b + 3ab^2 + b^3. Here's my listing (CG's software screws up the formatting, so you'll have to fix that yourself and redo the prettyprinting or imagine it): program Taxicab4
! ---Declare
parameter (n = 10000)
integer*4 i, j, k, m, n, kount, least, most
integer*8 term1(n), term2(n), term3(n), term4(n)
parameter (LDO = 16)
! ---Initialize
OPEN (UNIT=LDO, FILE='OUTPUT', STATUS='UNKNOWN')
do m = 1, n
least = mod(m, 1000)
most = (m - least)/1000
term1(m) = most**3
term2(m) = 3*most**2*least
term3(m) = 3*most*least**2
term4(m) = least**3
enddo
kount = 0
! ---Main loop
do k = 1, n
do j = 1, k-1
do i = 1, j-1
if (term1(i) + term1(k) .eq. 2*term1(j)) then
if (term2(i) + term2(k) .eq. 2*term2(j)) then
if (term3(i) + term3(k) .eq. 2*term3(j)) then
if (term4(i) + term4(k) .eq. 2*term4(j)) then
write (LDO,1) i, k, j
kount = kount + 1
endif
endif
endif
endif
enddo
enddo
enddo
write (LDO,2) kount
1 format(I5, '^3 +', I5, '^3 = 2 ×', I5, '^3')
2 format(I6, ' examples found.')
end
You can do something similar in your spreadsheet: just use one column for each set of three digits. But it will be a pain in the ass to program. |
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Sep-18-17
 | | al wazir: Let me see if I can prove that there are no solutions. Suppose that a, b, and c are positive integers satisfying (1) a^3 + b^3 = 2c^3,
and that there is no smaller set of such numbers. If any two of them had a common factor d > 1, they all would. Then a/d, b/d, and c/d would be smaller numbers and would satisfy the same Eq. (1), so no pair of a, b, and c can have a common factor. By Fermat's Little Theorem, a^3 ≡ a (mod 3); b^3 ≡ b (mod 3); c^3 ≡ c (mod 3), so Eq. (1) implies that a + b ≡ 2c (mod 3), or (2) a + b + c ≡ 0 (mod 3).
Hence the residues of a, b, and c modulo 3 are either all equal or all different. Since the RHS of (1) is even, a and b must both be odd. (If both were even they would have the common factor 2.) An odd integer has residue 1, 3, or 5 modulo 6, so a and b must take one of the following five forms: (i) a = 6j + 1, b = 6k+ 1;
(ii) a = 6j + 3, b = 6k + 1;
(iii) a = 6j + 5, b = 6k + 1;
(iv) a = 6j + 5, b = 6k + 3;
(v) a = 6j+ 5, b = 6k + 5,
where j and k are integers, or the corresponding forms with the residues interchanged, which are equivalent. (The case a = 6j + 3, b = 6k + 3 can be eliminated because then a and b would have a common factor 3.) Expanding the LHS of Eq. (1) in these five cases we find that it can be written respectively as (i) a^3 + b^3 = 6m + 2, so c^3 = 3l + 1;
(ii) a^3 + b^3 = 6m + 4, so c^3 = 3l + 2;
(iii) a^3 + b^3 = 6m, so c^3 = 3l;
(iv) a^3 + b^3 = 6m + 2, so c^3 = 3l + 1;
(v) a^3 + b^3 = 6m + 4, so c^3 = 3l + 2,
where l is an integer that depends on the values of j and k. So by Fermat's theorem in these five cases c takes the form (i) c = 3l + 1;
(ii) c = 3l + 2;
(iii) c = 3l ;
(iv) c = 3l + 1;
(v) c = 3l + 2,
respectively, where l depends on j and k.
If c is even the RHS of Eq. (1) contains a factor 16. Since a and b are odd, it must be possible to write them as a = 16s + r and b = 16t − r, where the residue r is chosen from 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, or the corresponding forms with the sign of r reversed. This doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Maybe I need help from Mr. Euler and Mr. Binet after all. |
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Sep-18-17
 | | al wazir: (continued)
Fermat's Last Theorem (his *big* theorem) says that for n greater than 2 there are no positive integers a, b, c satisfying a^n + b^n = c^n. For n = 3 this equation is the same as Eq. (1), except that the factor 2 on the RHS is missing. There are elementary proofs of the theorem for that special case, including one due to Euler (http://2000clicks.com/mathhelp/Numb...), so I looked at it to see if the technique he used works here. Since a and b are odd, if we set
(3) 2u = a + b; 2v = a − b,
u and v are whole numbers satisfying a = u + v and b = u − v. They have opposite parity and no common factor except 1. Then Eq. (1) becomes (4) u(u^2 + 3v^2) = c^3.
The greatest common divisor (GCD) of u and u^2 + 3v^2 must be either 1 or 3. (If it were any other number, it would divide both u and v.) Suppose it is 1. Since c is a cube, both u and u^2 + 3v^2 must be cubes (otherwise they would have to have a common factor): (5) u = s^3; u^2 + 3v^2 = t^3.
If the cube of t equals the sum of a square and three times a second square, then t must also have that form: (6) t = p^2 +3q^2 .
This is not easy to prove. Using the “complex product identity,” it is straightforward to show that if t = p^2 + 3q^2 and t' = p'^2 + 3q'^2, then t × t' = p"^2 + 3q"^2, where (7) p" = pp' – 3qq' and q" = pq' + p'q.
It follows that any power of t has the same form; in particular, (8) t^3 = p"'^2 + 3q"'^2
where p"' = p^3 – 9pq^2 and q"' = 3qp^2 – 3q^3.
It's easy to construct numerical examples illustrating this. Thus, 13^3 = 13^2 + 3·26^2, and 13 = 1^2 + 3·2^2;
16^3 = 32^2 + 3·32^2, and 16 =2^2 + 3·2^2;
21^3 = 63^2 + 3·42^2, and 21 = 3^2 + 3·4^2;
49^3 = 48^2 + 3·192^2, and 49 = 1^2 + 3·4^2;
52^3 = 260^2 + 3·156^2 and 52 = 5^2 + 3·3^2, etc. But this doesn't prove that numbers with this property must exist. What is needed is a proof, starting from Eq. (8), with p"', q"', and t known, that p and q satisfying Eq. (6) can always be found. Euler apparently didn't prove it, but later mathematicians have, so I will apply the result to p"' = u and q"' = v. Factor the expression for p"':
(9) p^3 – 9pq^2 = p(p + 3q)(p – 3q) = u = s^3.
If p, p + 3q, and p – 3q had a factor in common, it would divide u and v, so each is separately a cube: (10) p + 3q = a'^2; p – 3q = b'^2; p = c'^2.
Hence
(11) a'^3 + b'^3 = 2p = 2c'^3.
This has the same form as Eq. (1). But by construction a', b', and c' are smaller than a, b, and c, contradicting the initial assumption, so it's impossible. If the GCD of u and u^2 + 3v^2 is 3, then 3 is a factor of u, so u = 3w for some integer w, but 3 does not divide v because they have no common factor. Then (12) u(u^2 + 3v^2) = 3w[(3w)^2 + 3v^2] = 9w(v^2 + 3w^2) = c^3. By the same reasoning as above, where now v takes the place of u and w takes that of v, there must be numbers x and y such that v = x^3 – 9xy^2 and w = 3yx^2 – 3y^3. Hence (13) 9w = 27(yx^2 – y^3) = 27y(y + x)(y – x)
is a cube, from which it follows that y + x = a"^3, y – x = b"^3, and y = c"^3 are all cubes, and (14) a"^3 + b"^3 = 2y = 2c"^3.
This is again a contradiction. QED. |
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Sep-18-17 | | john barleycorn: Hint:
If a^3 + b^3 = 2*c^3
then 4*a^3 + 4*b^3 = 8*c^3 = (2c)^3
with
4*a^3 + 4*b^3 =
(a+b)*((a+b)^2 + 3*(a-b)^2)
and
(2*c)^3 = 2*c*((2c)^2 + 3*0) |
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Sep-18-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn>: Your last equation makes no sense. But I see the contradiction, and it's a lot shorter than my proof. Let f = a + b and g = a – b.
f must divide 2c: 2c = ef.
So f(f^2 + 3g^2) = e^3f^3.
Cancelling f, this becomes
3(e^3 - 1)f^2 = (3g)^2.
So f divides 3g: 3g = fh.
Since f > g, this is only possible if (i) h = 1; (ii) h = 2; or (iii) h = 3. (i) 3a - 3b = a + b, or a = 2b. They have a common factor. (ii) 2a - 2b = a + b, or a = 3b. They have a common factor. (iii) b = 0. Trivial.
QED. |
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Sep-18-17 | | john barleycorn: <al wazir: <john barleycorn>: Your last equation makes no sense....> you mean this one:
(2*c)^3 = (2*c)*((2*c)^2 + 3*0)? |
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Sep-18-17
 | | al wazir: <john barleycorn: you mean this one: (2*c)^3 = (2*c)*((2*c)^2 + 3*0)?>
Yes. |
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Sep-18-17 | | john barleycorn: <al wazir: ...
Let f = a + b and g = a – b.
f must divide 2c: 2c = ef. ....>
f=a+b must divide (2*c)^3 and if f is not a prime number it does not have to divide 2*c. That is pretty elementary |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 19 OF 94 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
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