I had seen it before but couldn't remember the whole thing. It came out in 1969 I think. Good old flick.

Yes, I knew that about Liston. I read a book once, I have it around here somewhere, King of the World by David Remnick, and it went into detail about Liston and Patterson. Both of them had very dark lives. It's beyond what I could imagine. They had troubles, Patterson too.

Frazier was a true gentleman and I always liked him too. A good guy. Ali brought out the best in a lot of the fighters he faced and Frazier was no exception. His fight with Ali in 1971 always leaves me breathless. He took such a beating from Ali in those first 7 rounds. Ali hit him with everything and Frazier kept coming. When he fought Foreman he was overweight and lazy.

Tyson was the first heavyweight that I really liked. I liked other boxers before him like Hagler and Leonard, but Tyson brought me all the way into the game. I was in denial over his beating at the hands of Douglass. I remember a kid in school back then told me if Tyson ever fought Holyfield or Foreman he would get killed. I laughed at him. That was in 1989 or 1990.

Foreman was truly devastating. My favorite Foreman fight is with Ron Lyle.

Liston was great but to really get a sense of what he was accomplishing, I had to watch the a few fights of the top contenders from the 50's. I would pick one of them and watch 3 or 4 fights and then move on to another. This gave me a much greater appreciation of Liston as he destroyed these people.

<With all the title belts floating around, boxing fans tend to be most interested in the 'lineal' champion in any particular weight class. A fighter can only truly become the lineal champ by beating the previous lineal champ, or being "the man that beat the man". In the event the prior lineal champ has permanently retired (or, for non-heavyweights, permanently left the weight class), there is no definitive process to recognize a new lineal champ, but it generally requires a fighter to become universally acclaimed as the best in that class.

1876 - May 30, 1880: Joe Goss - Claimed the title after defeating Tom Allen on a foul in 21 rounds.

May 30, 1880 - Feb. 7,1882: Paddy Ryan - Won the title from Joe Goss in the 87th round when Goss was unable to continue.

Feb. 7, 1882 - Sept. 7, 1892: John L. Sullivan - Won championship from Paddy Ryan when Ryan was unable to continue after nine knockdowns. Recognized as the last bare knuckle champion and the first Marquess of Queensberry heavyweight champion.

Sept. 7, 1892 - Mar. 17, 1897: James J. Corbett - Won championship via 21st round KO of John L. Sullivan.>

<Joe Jeannette vs Sam McVey, April 17 1909. Paris, France. Result: Jeannette TKO 49.

Just because the film doesn't exist doesnt mean it wasnt one of the greatest heavyweight fights ever. Jeannette was floored 27 times and McVey 7 times in a fight to the finish! Sam McVey floored Joe Jeannette 21 times in the first 19 rounds. After the 17th round bell Jeanette had to be dragged to his corner. In modern times there is no way such a fight would have been allowed to continue. We would never allow anyone to take that kind of a beating.

McVey would have won by devastating TKO and it would have been hailed in heavyweight history as one of the most thorough and viscious one sided beatings ever delivered upon a top fighter. But this was a fight to the finish and until someone quit or was counted out they were allowed to continue. And there was certainly no quit in Joe Jeannette! Displaying heart, will and determination that nearly defies the imagination Jeannette kept getting up and refused to lose.

McVey started to tire and slowed down from all the powerful punches he had thrown. In the 39th round Joe sent Sam to the canvas for the first time. McVey, exhausted couldnt answer the bell for the 50th round! Joe Jeannette despite suffering 27 knockdowns in this fight won by TKO!>

https://youtu.be/uhSkcOrfVm0

Full movie still in YouTube.

Here's a great interview with him.

Wise words.

"I'll provoke you until you hit me and I'll get a million dollars!"

"But who's gonna collect it. Your beneficiary??" LOL :)

Let me get back to you about your posts above <BP> because I'm really interested but I don't have the time tonight. But I have watched all the available footage (what I can find) of those bare knuckle fights and heavyweights from the late 1800's. The rounds are ridiculous, even the press are pushing the boxers back in the ring when they've been knocked clean out.... in the 39th round!? Some real classic footage and thanks for the links.

<Feb. 7, 1882 - Sept. 7, 1892: John L. Sullivan - Won championship from Paddy Ryan when Ryan was unable to continue after nine knockdowns. Recognized as the last bare knuckle champion and the first Marquess of Queensberry heavyweight champion.

Sept. 7, 1892 - Mar. 17, 1897: James J. Corbett - Won championship via 21st round KO of John L. Sullivan.>

I watched all the available footage I could find from that Sullivan bloke the other day! Great stuff.

Ali and Louis.

Ali "Joe do you really think you could have beat me?

Louis "Well I used to have a bum a month tour" (suspect, lol)

Ali "Are you saying I'm a bum?? "

Louis. "Well you'd be on the tour!" LOL

I think Ali would have beaten Joe Louis. Joe was flat footed and slow moving. He wasn't fast moving like Frazier.

But we will never know. Joe Louis had modern technique for his time, but Ali was bigger, had lots of stamina, could take a good punch and would dance circles around Joe. Just think, Max Schmelling knocked out Louis in his prime.

<love Bert Sugar. What a classic boxing guy, with the cigar, hat and the whole old school thing going on. They don't make them like that anymore!>

I love him too. He must have seen every big fight ringside for a good 50 years, his knowledge of boxing is unbelievable. Real old school guy.

<Tyson was the first heavyweight that I really liked. I liked other boxers before him like Hagler and Leonard>

Now it's really funny you mention Leonard! Only yesterday for the first time did I catch the 2nd Duran fight and I don't think I've seen 2 better rounds of boxing <ever> than the 7th and 8th. Duran gave up! Leonard was soooooooo fast he was doing the Ali shuffle, sticking his neck out, the fake dolo punch (that's what it's called right?) and I was shocked at how brilliantly Leonard fought. I've never seen nothing like it. And for a fighter like Duran to just give up with 22 seconds of the round left without being hardly hit was crazy! Anyways I can't be schooling myself on that weight division just yet because I have enough on with the heavyweight channel. I'm really enjoying going through those old fights, I watched Ali Frazier II last night again and I scored it exactly the same as one of the judges so I'm getting there, lol. I prefer Ali Frazier I and III though.

There were all these chairs in the living room all of a sudden so I asked what was going on. The coffee table was moved, other little tables were brought in. There was chips and dip out ready to be eaten. I was like, "What's this?".

My folks had invited my uncle and aunt, another uncle, my grandparents (both sides of the family were coming over), and some of my uncle's friends and maybe some other friends. Very unusual for my house.

The occasion was the Leonard vs Hearns fight. This was before cable tv had come to our area, so it was on Star Case or something like that. Sort of like an HBO alternative. It was a PPV, closed circuit event. To this day I can't believe my father paid for it as he has only a mild interest in boxing.

They sent me and my younger brother to bed!

I remember laying there, not even close to asleep at something like 7:30 PM, and hearing everybody show up, one by one. I recognized everyone's voices except for a few of my uncle's friends. I wanted to get up so bad! I heard my grandparents and uncles and folks all talking, "We have chips, fritos, clam dip (remember clam dip? That stuff was great! Why don't they make it anymore?), beer, soda - fight will be on soon".

I knew they were all sitting in those chairs, waiting for the fight to start. Finally, the fight started and I heard the introductions. Everyone was talking. There was about 10 people in my house smoking and my whole room stunk like those damn cigarettes! Yuck. Always hated that.

Everyone liked Sugar Ray. When the fight started I could hear them rooting and yelling at the tv and carrying on. It sounded like great fun. Those chips were on my mind too.

As the fight went on they quieted down and started talking in a concerned way about Sugar Ray. Uh oh, their guy was losing? I didn't realize it then, but my experience was just like in times of old when people would gather around the radio to listen to the fight. I had no idea what Leonard or Hearns looked like, but I imagined it.

Suddenly there was a lot of excitement. My uncle was yelling at the tv again and everyone was rooting for Sugar Ray. I got caught up in the excitement! "Come on Sugar Ray!" my uncle Doug yelled. Next thing you know, Sugar Ray won the fight and there was all kinds of good laughter and high-fiving going on in my old living room.

I always remembered that. I liked Sugar Ray after that and was thrilled to see him fight Hagler later on.

Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian:

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."

Of course the entire founding of the church has no explanation apart from the fact that the disciples truly believed in his resurrection. As he foretold the Gospel would reach the ends of the earth, not bad since it started from some Hebrew fishermen, a tax collector and a carpenter. Here we are fulfilling that prophecy while <CM> fulfills the part about scoffers. Oh the irony...

I would really be convinced if Israel became a nation again after the Jews were scattered and persecuted to the ends of the earth and yet remained a people only to become a nation again in one day. That they would be the preoccupation of the world at large too. That they would be hated and that Christians would be misspoken about and mocked. If those things were to happen then maybe??? Oh wait... Well if someone came back from the dead then they would believe. Abraham told the rich man in the torments of Hell that even if a man came back from the dead they would NOT believe. Interesting enough another Lazarus was resurrected and they sought to kill him again.

<Jambow>, your comments are spot on and thanks for dropping by. There is much for the average Joe to learn about the actual historicity of the Resurrection!

https://youtu.be/XntA0UmUEJw

Welcome and you are so correct. <CM> and others are not interested in looking at the facts or evidence they have set their heart against the Lord himself.

God will meet the skeptic because there is a sincerity by definition, the scoffers are simply mockers with no desire to know or hear the truth. Amazing if you search the scriptures how often you find mercy and truth side by side.

1. Life is fair.
2. Life is Good.
3. Life is easy.

However, if you are an angry person, or a person that carries resentment, or a hateful person (which is all the same thing really) then you will think:

1. Life is not fair.
2. Life stinks.
3. Life is hard.

End of story.

http://imgur.com/bjoOF7g

This proposition is known as atheism.

Propositions are either true or false.