That's just your spin on it. It is clearly talking to Christians who are living now before the day of judgment.

<In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment ...>

Clearly they are talking about something that is yet to come. According to first John if they do not love then they do not know God in which case they get sent to hell on the day of judgment, but they can only love God if they have no fear of God. That's really the only context that I see it in.

<<<<<OhioChessFan>>>> Yes, in ONE way, we do need to fear God. In a DIFFERENT way, no, we need not fear God.>

1. Jesus' preaching was in fact the preaching done by those Old Testament prophets, (probably meaning Noah) on Jesus' behalf. For example, 2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

When using words to describe human emotion, I think it's patently obvious there's different ways the words can be used. I love cheeseburgers, I love the Andy Griffith Show, I love my nephew's laugh, I love this website. I don't think you'd affirm "love is love".

<Why do I think Darwinism will be discredited? Actually, I think it already has been discredited. My grounds for thinking so are both theological and scientific--and political, in that it has to do with the way Darwinists have behaved. Come to think of it, I believe I have some semantic grounds, too.>

Well, I can understand you not liking the way that some 'Darwinists' behave. Of course some of them are predisposed to atheism, and they will express gladness at any theory that they think supports their case. This happened in the case of Darwin's findings.

But this doesn't imply that atheism was the driving force behind that theory, and that Darwin deliberately spent years making his observations just so he could contrive a way to 'attack' the Bible. Frankly, those who eagerly accept Darwin's theory just because it supports their atheistic ideas are essentially no different than those who buy a creationist theory (e.g. young universe) just because it supports their interpretation of Genesis.

<As for the success of science--well, science doesn't have to be right to be successful. The Ptolemaic, geocentric cosmology was abundantly successful for centuries.>

Perhaps you and I have different ideas of what it means for a scientific idea to be 'successful'. Geocentric ideas might have been successful in the sense that lots of people believed it, but it wasn't that successful as a scientific theory because it left a lot of observations unexplained, such as the apparent inconsistency in the motion planets. They changed speeds and sometimes changed directions. There was pressure to find a better theory, and scientists discovered it -- with the typical objection from religion.

Anyway, people of religion may detect animosity from scientists from time to time, and regard it as evidence that science is anti-Bible. But try to look at it from the scientist's point of view: Science has contributed huge advances toward understanding the physical universe, as evidenced by the successful applications of their work. But these advances were made with no help from religion, and frequently with interference and persecution from religion. Some resentment from scientists is to be expected, no?

< And where government-contracted "scientists" failed to build a flying machine, the lowly Wright Brothers--bicycle mechanics by trade!--succeeded.>

This shouldn't be that surprising. The Wright brothers weren't just 'lowly' mechanics that stumbled upon a flying machine -- they were scientists, by virtue of the fact that they conducted science. They researched the efforts of others who had worked on flying machines, and they introduced innovations that dealt with the problems encountered by their predecessors.

They also observed birds and noticed how they bank into a turn, and this guided their innovation. They conducted experiments with kites and gliders, and learned from trial and error. Of course, the skills they developed from their mechanical work was a great benefit to them.

Not exactly. As you pointed out with the Stalin and Mao examples the hell idea comes from us. We do a wonderful job of making hell real on earth. The church has had much success with profiting and controlling people through the hell idea. It allowed them to create a hell that is impossible here on earth. One where a person could burn for all eternity. For much of the past 2,000 years the credo has been "Pray, pay, and obey."

Personally, I believe in God. I believe that God is not insane like we are. Have you ever wondered why Jesus would go through all the trouble of allowing himself to be crucified without bothering to write anything down? Could you even enjoy Heaven knowing that some that you love here on earth where burning in hell? Can you imagine a loving God who would do such a thing?

People can and have made life incredibly awful. Based on my view of hell, nothing compares to the horrors of hell as discussed in the Bible.

<The church has had much success with profiting and controlling people through the hell idea. >

I agree that many in the name of God have profited from it and sought to control people.

<It allowed them to create a hell that is impossible here on earth. One where a person could burn for all eternity. For much of the past 2,000 years the credo has been "Pray, pay, and obey.">

I think they took the truth of an eternal hell and misused for their own ends.

<Personally, I believe in God. I believe that God is not insane like we are. Have you ever wondered why Jesus would go through all the trouble of allowing himself to be crucified without bothering to write anything down?>

Yes. I don't have any good answers. A lot of speculations.

<Could you even enjoy Heaven knowing that some that you love here on earth where burning in hell? >

That is a very hard question to answer. Many in the religious world suggest we will have no memory of them. I lean toward the view that a person entering heaven must have the righteousness of God. And a being that righteous would look upon sin with such revulsion they would be just like God and accept that nothing unrighteous can enter heaven. For all that, I don't concern myself much with it. I guess I can accept some things in the God realm won't gibe with human wisdom.

<Can you imagine a loving God who would do such a thing? >

Yes. He is revealed in the pages of the Bible.

<We spend a few years here on earth, and receive an eternal punishment. Even in our own flawed judicial system there is no comparable penalty, and yet Christians believe that a loving and just God could do such a thing. I see plenty of evidence of that kind of thinking here on earth. I don't see any evidence of it coming from God.>

<whatthefat: Is that how you look upon those of other faiths and atheists?>

What never made sense to me was why the unfurled cloth would bear what looks like a 2D image of Christ in perfect proportion: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...

<1> Who is the father of Joseph?

Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

<2> How many stalls and horsemen did Solomon have?

1 Kings 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2 Chronicles 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

<3> Order of creation?

Genesis 1

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!) Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids) Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.) Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time) Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Genesis 2

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

<4> How did Judas die?

Matthew 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself.

ACT 1:18 And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.

<5> Ascend to Heaven?

2 Kings 2:11 And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

<6> How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?

2 Samuel 6:23 And Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

2 Samuel 21:8 But the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Aiah's daughter Rizpah, whom she had borne to Saul, together with the five sons of Saul's daughter Merab, whom she had borne to Adriel son of Barzillai the Meholathite.

<7> Should we answer a fool or not?

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

<8> What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?

Matthew 27:28 They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him,

John 19:2 The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe

<9> How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?

2 Kings 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. His mother's name was Nehushta daughter of Elnathan; she was from Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 36:9 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months and ten days. He did evil in the eyes of the LORD.

<10> How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?

2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem one year. His mother's name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of Omri king of Israel.

2 Chronicles 22:2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

<11> Who was the son of Josiah?

2 Chronicles 36:1 Then the people of the land took Jehoahaz the son of Josiah, and made him king in his father's stead in Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 22:11 For thus saith the LORD touching Shallum the son of Josiah king of Judah, which reigned instead of Josiah his father, which went forth out of this place; He shall not return thither any more

<12> To judge or not to judge.

1 Corinthians 2:15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment