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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 135 OF 849 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Apr-22-10 | | playground player: <You Rang> Great answer! Is there an evangelist in you crying to be let out? |
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| Apr-22-10 | | YouRang: <playground player: <You Rang> Great answer! Is there an evangelist in you crying to be let out?> Thank you. But before I evangelize to others, I should be obligated to make an earnest attempt to figure out what is true myself. To that end, I've made a sincere attempt at understanding the Bible (other "holy books" too, but mostly the Bible). Unlike many Christians, I don't give the Bible a "free pass" regarding its infallability or inerrancy. For example, there are a some blantant contradictions that Christians generally dismiss as "copyist errors". Fine, but what about copyist errors that didn't get caught because they didn't happen to contradict other scripture? If there is a God, and if the Bible is indeed God's word, He didn't make it a book without difficulties. |
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Apr-22-10
 | | OhioChessFan: <YouRang: For example, there are a some blantant contradictions that Christians generally dismiss as "copyist errors". Fine, but what about copyist errors that didn't get caught because they didn't happen to contradict other scripture? > The vast majority of Scribal errors are name spellings, and numbers involving a degree/power of 10. <If there is a God, and if the Bible is indeed God's word, He didn't make it a book without difficulties. > I'm sure that's true. OTOH, do you think you could come up with a work of literature as complex as the Bible and leave it completely unassailable by critics? Any time you used figurative language, you'd be susceptible to the charge of contradiction because what you said wasn't literally true, etc. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | whatthefat: I'd like to repeat a question I asked earlier:
<What is the basis for assuming that the books of the Bible are literally the word of God, when they claim to be authored by many different humans (and in fact, some of the gospels have been discarded as non-canon)? Where exactly is it stated that this particular subset of scriptures is the word of God?> |
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Apr-22-10
| | OhioChessFan: <YouRang: Unlike many Christians, I don't give the Bible a "free pass" regarding its infallability or inerrancy. > I almost overlooked this. This is a legitimate criticism of much of the Christian world. I think it's important to be reminded over and over that the greatest command, according to Jesus, is: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy <<mind>>." I think it reflects very poorly on Christianity to have people with no sense of logic and understanding trying to persuade others of their position. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: <<whatthefat>> hi have a good day my friend ... i,ve got to find Jesus in me, in you, in ocf, in yourang, in playground, etc i've got to find the best, always aim for the best .... like on a chess board .....thx like you love science so i aim who, that, what, where, why, how, whatever ....or other i don't know yet |
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| Apr-22-10 | | YouRang: <OhioChessFan>
The vast majority of <<known>> Scribal errors are name spellings, and numbers involving a degree/power of 10. If they could make such errors, then why should anyone assume that they could not make other types of errors, for example, dropping a word? <OTOH, do you think you could come up with a work of literature as complex as the Bible and leave it completely unassailable by critics? > Not at all, that would probably be impossible. But what I am addressing is the fact that many Christians speak as though the Bible should be considered unassailable. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: <the answer to the prayers of the first beleiver in favor of St-Paul> On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus,
a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him.
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him,
“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
He said, “Who are you, sir?”
The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do.”
The men who were traveling with him stood speechless,
for they heard the voice but could see no one.
Saul got up from the ground,
but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing;
so they led him by the hand and brought him to Damascus.
For three days he was unable to see, and he neither ate nor drank. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: He answered, “Here I am, Lord.”
The Lord said to him, <“Get up and go to the street called Straight
and ask at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul.
He is there praying,
and in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias
come in and lay his hands on him,
that he may regain his sight.”>
But Ananias replied,
<“Lord, I have heard from many sources about this man,
what evil things he has done to your holy ones in Jerusalem.
And here he has authority from the chief priests
to imprison all who call upon your name.”>
But <the Lord said to him,
“Go, for this man is a chosen instrument of mine
to carry my name before Gentiles, kings, and children of Israel>,
and I will show him what he will have to suffer for my name.” |
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| Apr-22-10 | | YouRang: <OhioChessFan><I think it reflects very poorly on Christianity to have people with no sense of logic and understanding trying to persuade others of their position.> True, and yet the most persuasive Christians may be those who simply accept the teachings, and live lives that exhibit humbleness, love and forgiveness toward others. Curious. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: <whom> |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: http://cs.netlog.com/go/explore/vid... _______ J C |
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Apr-22-10
| | OhioChessFan: <YouRang: True, and yet the most persuasive Christians may be those who simply accept the teachings, and live lives that exhibit humbleness, love and forgiveness toward others. Curious.> I am guessing the sort of person who would mock Christianity as mindless mythology is not the sort of person to be persuaded by humbleness, love and forgiveness. I am all for those things, but we both know full well the innate sense of intellectual superiority many unbelievers feel toward Christians. It hasn't really surfaced on my forum, but I can show you all over this website where that is the prevailing mindset. When the stage is set for an intellectual defense of Christanity, I am quite happy to be front and center and make zero apologies for it. There's a time and a place for everything. |
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Apr-22-10
 | | chancho: This science stuff is really fascinating.
I just heard that this thing called the "singularity", (something smaller than an atom) exploded with all that energy that we all like to call the Big Bang. I don't know! Maybe I heard wrong...but with all the nuclei in atoms that get split in order to cause nuclear fission, how is it that something smaller than an atom can release so much vast amounts of energy?
I'm tripping at the thought methinks... |
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| Apr-22-10 | | whatthefat: <OCF: I am all for those things, but we both know full well the innate sense of intellectual superiority many unbelievers feel toward Christians.> Since it's clear that in this forum, I represent <the sort of person who would mock Christianity as mindless mythology>, let me be perfectly honest with you on this point: I've only ever felt that way towards those Christians who take the Bible completely literally in spite of scientific and self-contradictions, those that have told me that if the Resurrection was proven to have not happened then they would lose all interest in the religion, and those who have tried to force the religion on to me out of what they see as charity or pity (the height of arrogance). I actually think Christianity as a *philosophy* has a lot to offer (as do many religions); the basic tenets are honorable and idealistic. It's only those who have decided the Bible to be absolute truth and closed their minds to other possibilities that I disdain, and it is also exactly those people who scare me the most on a geopolitical level, because anyone who believes God is on their side is inherently dangerous to those who oppose them. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: So Ananias went and entered the house;
laying his hands on him, he said,
“Saul, my brother, the Lord has sent me,
Jesus who appeared to you on the way by which you came,
that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Immediately things like scales fell from his eyes
and he regained his sight.
He got up and was baptized,
and when he had eaten, he recovered his strength. ___________ <and St-Paul was so called .....> |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: <whatthefat> my way of life religion is Love as in universal, there is not any human whom i do not include in, <there's no way my Good Shepheard is losing even one, it cannot be because he is perfect in all> .... think as it as a universal chess player ..... thx |
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| Apr-22-10 | | YouRang: <chancho: This science stuff is really fascinating.
I just heard that this thing called the "singularity", (something smaller than an atom) exploded with all that energy that we all like to call the Big Bang.> It is fascinating, although scientists don't really know if a singularity can actually occur in nature. In fact, a singularity is just a condition that causes their mathematical model to crash (sort of like a divide-by-zero condition). This may simply mean that our best current mathematical model of gravity (Einstein's General Theory of Relativity) is incomplete, just as Einstein showed that Newton's earlier mathematical model of gravity was incomplete. That's my understanding of it anyhow. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: pretty hard to defy einstein .....thx |
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Apr-22-10
| | OhioChessFan: <whatthefat: Since it's clear that in this forum, I represent <the sort of person who would mock Christianity as mindless mythology>, let me be perfectly honest with you on this point: > I have not felt mocked so I didn't have you in mind there. To be fair, I did after all state <It hasn't really surfaced on my forum> <I've only ever felt that way towards those Christians who take the Bible completely literally in spite of scientific and self-contradictions,> We just don't happen to agree those contradictions exist, but that's fine. <those that have told me that if the Resurrection was proven to have not happened then they would lose all interest in the religion,> I would drop my Christian beliefs like a hot potato if I concluded the Resurrection didn't happen. 1 Cor. 15:7-19 NIV And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. <and those who have tried to force the religion on to me out of what they see as charity or pity (the height of arrogance).> I don't know you mean by force, but I think it should be offered and not demanded. <I actually think Christianity as a *philosophy* has a lot to offer (as do many religions); the basic tenets are honorable and idealistic. It's only those who have decided the Bible to be absolute truth and closed their minds to other possibilities that I disdain, and it is also exactly those people who scare me the most on a geopolitical level, because anyone who believes God is on their side is inherently dangerous to those who oppose them.> You flip flop there between believing the Bible and believing God is on their side. I don't think those are necessarily compatible. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: nite nite guys ..... thx |
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| Apr-22-10 | | YouRang: <You flip flop there between believing the Bible and believing God is on their side. I don't think those are necessarily compatible.> In a way, I agree with both of you.
IN THEORY: A Christian should not consider God to be "on his/her side" except concerning love and salvation. In fact, a core Christian doctrine is that people are corrupt sinners who deserve God's wrath (in fact, this was the point Paul was finishing in the Romans 3 passage we looked at earlier). God may either bless or chastise his children. I think this point distinguishes Christianity from many other religions. IN PRACTICE: There are always those who will do almost anything (including desperate and dangerous things) with absolutely certainty they are doing God's will. They are thus convinced that God will bless them, either in this life or in the next. Such people may arise in any religion (or a perverted form of that religion), including Christianity. |
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Apr-22-10
| | chancho: <YouRang> Thanks for that. |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: <<<You Rang>> <“Go, for <this man is a chosen instrument of mine
to carry my name before Gentiles, kings, and children of Israel,
and <I will <show him> what he will have to suffer for my name>>.” _______ St-Paul went to Roma at the end after his(special) preaching mission not impossible to him only.> ...thx> |
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| Apr-22-10 | | cormier: Praise the LORD, all you nations;
glorify him, all you peoples!
<Go out to all the world and tell the Good News. Alleluia.>
For steadfast is his kindness toward us,
and the fidelity of the LORD endures forever.
<Go out to all the world and tell the Good News. Alleluia.> |
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