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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 187 OF 849 ·
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| Jul-28-10 | | The Chess Express: <OhioChessFan> Just out of curiosity what books from the Bible do you accept as factual, and what books do you dismiss as poetry? |
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Jul-28-10
 | | OhioChessFan: I wouldn't use the word "dismiss" but I understand the book of Psalms to be primarily a book of Poetry. Song of Solomon is almost straight forward romantic poetry. Job has many poetic references. Much of Ecclesiastes. Much of Proverbs. Revelation is an extremely symbol laden book. Surely truth can be found in poetry, but for the most part, that's not the purpose. |
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| Jul-28-10 | | achieve: <Surely truth can be found in poetry, but for the most part, that's not the purpose.> That's truly an unintelligible statement in my view, and in the view of Jesus and various authors of the New testament as well (I will illustrate if necessary), who regularly refer directly to Psalms' scriptures in no unclear terms. In your "static" view as to the value of the eg psalms at the time they were written you seem to pass by the many many crucial references made by later authors as they slowly but surely lifted the veil on the BIG Secret (Genesis 3 --> Revelation 21). It has, pardon the phrase, "evolved". ;) It's all connected and the angle and understanding have changed in that there has come forward an incrementally improving insight in the Scripture and the Sacred Secret (not sure if that's the correct translation of "Heilige Geheim"). Your statement there is rather risky and a vulnerable and misleading form of conjecture that is met by counter-evidence from the scripture (the WHOLE canon; this is VERY important to emphasize and understand: no book stands on its own, and is complexly intertwined with all of the scriptures). |
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Jul-28-10
 | | chancho: Hi <OCF> can you please tell me what you think of this: http://www.truechristian.org/antich... |
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| Jul-28-10 | | achieve: One thing about poetry that has not yet been mentioned, is that it is only preceivable by hebrew speakers and scholars, but not for the 99.9% of the readers of the Bible; 200+ languages it has been translated in. For none of those [readers] the purpose can be mostly poetic, and i assume therefor that it wasn't intended to be, or rather <stay that way>... There are several scriptures btw that explicitly refer to the canon to reach its full dynamic force and meaning and fulfil its potential towards the "end-time." Back for some replies to your posts tomorrow/later this week. I still need to read up on the apologetics folk ;) So little time, sigh, I desperately need a secretary or something. |
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Jul-28-10
| | OhioChessFan: <chancho> I only had to read the title to conclude it's nonsense. There is no single antichrist. There were, are, and will be, millions of antichrists. As for Biblical prophecy, I don't see anything in the world today that has any particular relevance to end times. |
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Jul-28-10
| | OhioChessFan: <(the WHOLE canon; this is VERY important to emphasize and understand: no book stands on its own, and is complexly intertwined with all of the scriptures).> I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I do agree that the Bible can't be well understood in isolation and much effort must be made to see if any particular issue is under consideration somewhere else. |
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Jul-28-10
| | OhioChessFan: Whoa. I was wondering what had <achieve> up in arms and I happened to re-read this line: <Surely truth can be found in poetry, but for the most part, that's not the purpose.> I'm not sure what I was meaning to say there, but there was a definite break between the brain and the fingers. I might have meant something along the lines of <Surely <doctrinal> truth can be found in poetry, but for the most part, that's not the purpose.>
or <Surely <prophetic> truth can be found in poetry, but for the most part, that's not the purpose.> or maybe something else. |
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Jul-28-10
| | OhioChessFan: And now I see that is the very line <achieve> quoted. Ugh. |
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Jul-28-10
| | chancho: <OCF> Thanks. |
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| Jul-28-10 | | cormier: Those Who pray are never alone
On Sunday, 25 July Before praying the Angelus about the "Lord's Prayer" Which featured in the Gospel passage for this day. The following is a translation. Dear Brothers and Sisters, Dear Brothers and Sisters, This Sunday's Gospel presents Jesus to us Absorbed in prayer, a little apart from His disciples. When he had finished, one of them said to him: "Lord, teach us to pray" (Lk 11: 1). Jesus HAD no objection, I Did not speak of strange or very esoteric formulas But Simply said: "When you pray, say:" Father, '"and I Taught the Our Father (cf. Lk 11: 2-4), taking it His own prayer from In Which I spoke to God Himself, His Father. St Luke the Our Father passes on to us in a form Shorter Than That found in the Gospel According To St Matthew, has Entered Into Which common usage. We Have Before us the first words of Sacred Scripture That We learn in childhood. They are Impressed in Our memory, Our Life and mold us to Accompany Our last breath. They reveal that "and we are not ready-made Children of God from the start, But That we are meant to Become increasingly so by Growing more and more Deeply in communion with Jesus. Our sonship turns out to be Identical with Following Christ" Also accepts this prayer and spiritual and material human expressos Needs: "Give Us Each Day Our Daily Bread, and forgive us Our sins" (Lk 11: 3-4). It is precisely because of the needs and difficulties of every day that Jesus exhorts us forcefully: "I tell you, ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened" (Lk 11: 9-10). It is not so much in order to Satisfy Asking Our Own Desires as, Rather, to keep a lively friendship with God Who, The Gospel continues, "the Holy Spirit will Give to Those Who ask him!" (Lk 11: 13). The ancient "Desert Fathers" experience this, as did Contemplative Who Became of all epochs, Through prayer, friends of God, like Abraham WHO begger the Lord to spare the righteous FEW from the destruction of the city of Sodom (cf. Gen 18: 21-32). St Teresa of Avila addressed an invitation to her sisters with the words: we must "beseech God to Deliver Us From These Perils for ever and to keep us from all evil! And although Our desire for this May Not be perfect, to let us STRIVE make the petition. What does it cost us to ask it, Since we ask it of One Who is so Powerful? " The Way of Perfection. Every time we say the Our Father our voices mingle with the voice of the Church, for those who pray are never alone. "From the rich variety of Christian prayer as proposed by the Church. Each member of the Faithful should seek and find His own way, His own form of prayer ... Each person will, Therefore, let Himself be led by the ... Holy Spirit, Who guides him, Through Christ, to the Father " |
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| Jul-29-10 | | cormier: Jesus should be better known worldwide by all countries in 3000-3500 A.D. ..... tks |
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| Jul-29-10 | | achieve: <I'm not sure what I was meaning to say there> Well, Ohio sir! - you had me in quite a state of turmoil mixed with confusement there! - but I regrouped and managed to pull through in, by now,familiar fashion... <but there was a definite break between the brain and the fingers.> LOL Btw Is it confuse<ment> or confus<ion>? Both possible? How illustrative and ironic! |
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| Jul-29-10 | | cormier: http://www.usccb.org/nab/072910.shtml |
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| Jul-29-10 | | The Chess Express: <<<<<OhioChessFan>>>> I wouldn't use the word "dismiss" but I understand the book of Psalms to be primarily a book of Poetry. Song of Solomon is almost straight forward romantic poetry. Job has many poetic references. Much of Ecclesiastes. Much of Proverbs. Revelation is an extremely symbol laden book. Surely truth can be found in poetry, but for the most part, that's not the purpose.> How about the book of Corinthians or 1 John?
<<<<<OhioChessFan>>>>There is no single Antichrist. There were, are, and will be, millions of Antichrists.> I take it you are referring to verses like these?
<1 John 2:18> Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. <<<<<OhioChessFan>>>> I don't see anything in the world today that has any particular relevance to end times.> What do you think about the various prophecies concerning Israel and the endtimes? |
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| Jul-29-10 | | cormier: <Jul-29-10 cormier: Jesus should be better known worldwide by all countries in 3000-3500 A.D. ..... tks > ..... tks ps. i hope it's sooner |
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| Jul-29-10 | | Icebreaker: Current Conditions
Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station, Antarctica (Airport) Updated: 1 hr 10 min 10 sec ago
-55 °C
Snow
Wind: 32 km/h / from the NNE
Wind Gust: -
Pressure: hPa (Falling)
Visibility: 1.6 kilometers
Clouds: Few 360 m
Mostly Cloudy 750 m
(Above Ground Level) ---,--,---. |
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Jul-29-10
| | OhioChessFan: <TCE: How about the book of Corinthians or 1 John? >
The letters to the Corinithian church and John's open letter were fairly practical teachings for the early church. Of course in both cases, there are some poetic figures, but I think the primary purpose was to provide working instructions for the Christian. <<<<<OhioChessFan>>>>There is no single Antichrist. There were, are, and will be, millions of Antichrists.> <TCE: I take it you are referring to verses like these? <1 John 2:18> Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. > Yes. It shocks most people when I tell them there is no mention whatsoever in the entire book of Revelation of antichrist. <What do you think about the various prophecies concerning Israel and the endtimes?> I think all prophecies about the land of Israel were fulfilled thousands of years ago. I think most of what people insist are end time propheices are in fact warnings about the events of 70AD. The only major prophecy I see yet to be fulfilled is the second coming of Jesus. |
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| Jul-29-10 | | cormier: 1 John 3
Testing the Spirits
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. 4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. |
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Jul-29-10
| | OhioChessFan: I think, <cormier> that the "spirits" there are probably the Gnostics, who called themselves spirits. |
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| Jul-29-10 | | The Chess Express: <<<<<OhioChessFan>>>> I think all prophecies about the land of Israel were fulfilled thousands of years ago. I think most of what people insist are end time prophecies are in fact warnings about the events of 70AD. The only major prophecy I see yet to be fulfilled is the second coming of Jesus.> And what do you believe about the second coming? |
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Jul-29-10
| | OhioChessFan: He will come back, all the dead will meet him in the air, and then the Judgment. |
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| Jul-29-10 | | NakoSonorense: Is this going to happen anytime soon? |
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Jul-30-10
| | OhioChessFan: I have no idea. Lots of people will make lots of $ claiming it's about to happen in the meantime. |
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| Jul-30-10 | | arifattar: “That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, God raised him up unto the himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise.”[Qur'an 4:157–158] “And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.”[Qur'an 43:61] |
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