“And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.”[Qur'an 43:61]>

<1 John 2:22-23> Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. <23> No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

There are places in the scripture that attach great specialness to Jesus as being the only Christ, and there are places in the scripture that say we are all Christ. I'll give an example

<1 Corinthians 12:12> For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Furthermore, the scripture tells us that the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual awakening rather than corpses floating out of the ground. If that were not the case why would Jesus have said "Let the dead bury the dead" ? It's possible to have a living body and be dead spiritually. It's also possible to have a living body and be alive spiritually.

<Ephesians 5:8-15> For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light <9> (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) <10> and find out what pleases the Lord. <11> Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. <12> For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. <13> But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, <14> for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:

"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."

<15> Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise,

So here we see that rising from the dead simply means waking spiritually in this lifetime. It's also noteworthy that "death" in biblical terms simply means to sleep rather than permanent destruction. Here's a passage from 1 John that to me better explains the second coming

<1 John 3:1-3> How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. <2> Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. <3> Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.

The important part is <when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is> I see the second coming as being the day that we remember what we truly are. If that's the case than the time of the second coming is different for everybody. Here's one last example of Jesus telling us that we are equal with him.

<Matt 10:24-25> The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his Lord. <25> It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his Lord.

55 But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, <"You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;

56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.">] And they went on to another village.

Exacting Discipleship
57 As they were going along the road, someone said to Him, "I will follow You wherever You go."

58 And Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

59 And He said to another, "Follow Me." But he said, "Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father."

60 But He said to him, "Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, <go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God>."

61 Another also said, "I will follow You, Lord; but first permit me to say good-bye to those at home."

Walk On The Water - CCR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dI7...

lyrics
Late last night, I went for a walk,
Down by the river near my home.
Couldn't believe, with my own eyes,
And I swear I'll never leave my home again.

I saw a man walking on the water.
Coming right at me from the other side.
Calling out my name; "Do not be afraid."
Feet begin to run, pounding in my brain;
I don't want to go; I don't want to go.

No, no, no, no, no...
I don't want to go.

<1 Corinthians 12:12> For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.>

I really don't see the problem. Jesus is indeed special, and all his followers are one in him. I don't see that as contradictory.

<Furthermore, the scripture tells us that the resurrection of the dead is a spiritual awakening rather than corpses floating out of the ground. If that were not the case why would Jesus have said "Let the dead bury the dead" ? It's possible to have a living body and be dead spiritually. It's also possible to have a living body and be alive spiritually.>

Jesus was making the point to let the (spiritually) dead = those who weren't following him, should be burying the physically dead. We agree about the the living body and dead spiritually part.

<So here we see that rising from the dead simply means waking spiritually in this lifetime. It's also noteworthy that "death" in biblical terms simply means to sleep rather than permanent destruction. Here's a passage from 1 John that to me better explains the second coming>

I would agree that a person can wake spiritually. Romans 6:3-4 would indicate a person rises to a new life when they rise from the waters of baptism. "Sleep" is sometimes used allegorically to describe death. The account of Lazarus shows some confusion among the apostles about how that word is being used.

<The important part is <when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is> I see the second coming as being the day that we remember what we truly are. If that's the case than the time of the second coming is different for everybody. Here's one last example of Jesus telling us that we are equal with him.>

It's a problem because there is no difference between Jesus and us.

<when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is

The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his Lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his Lord.>

<<<<<OhioChessFan>>>> John 5:28-29 indicates it will be a one shot deal. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.>

<Revelation 11:15> The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Vs

<1 Corinthians 15:24-25> Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. <25> For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Revelations says that Jesus will rein forever while 1 Corinthians says that he will rein only until he has vanquished his enemies. What's more, it seems that the word "hell" is a mistake as well.

Hi!

Long time no talk. Hope you are well- I last saw you over at <Dom's> place.

Anyways interesting CCR post by <Travis>.

I think that any investigation into John Fogerty's religious beliefs has to include baseball.

Seriously.

heh- are you laboring under the often horrific burden of "season's tickets"?

I had a boyfriend in Vancouver who had Canucks season's tickets and he used to drag me to games sometimes.

They were a lot more fun than they might have been given how CRAP the Canucks were playing in them days-

I remember one game vividly- the Canucks were down one goal, five minutes remaining and they were just checking inside their own blue line, all five guys, no effort to break out.

So my boyfriend looks at me, stone-faced, and says

<col 3:> 11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, [b]barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;

2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,

3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.

8 Therefore it says,
"WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH,
HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES,
AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."

9 (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

The Christian's Walk
17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,

18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;

<kormier> tks mstr

Here is a beautiful song for you and <Ohio> by Peter Gabriel and Genesis 1970

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsQw...

"Standing in a forest
Gazing at the sun
Looking at the trees,
But there's not even one
See a ripple stream
That smiles and then goes by
You want to feel its comfort
But the moat is dry

I see her face
and run to take her hand
Why she's never there
I just don't understand
The Trumpets sound
My whole world crumbles down