< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 896 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-16-18 | | Chessdreamer: <jessicafischerqueen> it is possible get the correct round pairings from partial information, the link of "top secret maths voodoo"; https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table... |
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Sep-16-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni> That might be what I was trying to "remember." You guys were making use of the <Hamburger Table> numbers, right? <Tab, Chessdreamer> Thank you so much gentlemen. |
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Sep-16-18
 | | Phony Benoni: <jessicafischerqueen>: If you have all of one player's games with round information, you can easily determine all the pairings -- provided, of course, that the tournament used the same Berger Table of Pairings that you are using.
The key is to determining Petrovs' pairing number, which can be done by examining his color allocations. Generally a player will alternate colors in each round, but at some point during the tournament will receive either two White or two Blacks in a row. It works out like this: #1: starts W, receives W in rds.1-2
#2: starts W, receives W in rds.3-4
#3: starts W, receives W in rds.5-6
#4: starts W, receives W in rds.7-8
#5: starts W, receives W in rds.9-10
#6: starts W, receives W in rds.11-12
#7: starts W, receives W in rds.13-14
#8: starts W, alternates in every round
#9: starts B, receives B in rds.1-2
#10: starts B, receives W in rds.3-4
#11: starts B, receives W in rds.5-6
#12: starts B, receives W in rds.7-8
#13: starts B, receives W in rds.9-10
#14: starts B, receives W in rds.11-12
#15: starts B, receives W in rds.13-14
#16: starts B, Alternates all the way
The pattern is pretty obvious.
I don't have all Petrovs' games, but I see from the one in the database that he had Black in round 3-4, which means his pairing number is <10>. Now, you can go to the table given by <Chessdreamer> and determine the pairing numbers of his opponents. Once you have all the pairing numbers, it's just a matter of plugging things in. For example, in round 1 Petrovs had Black against BogolJUBOV,, who had pairing number #7. In round 2, White against Book, who is #8. To do the "plugging in", I make a copy of the Berger table in Notepad or some other word processing thinggee, and do a "find-and-replace. If you try this it is important to start with player #16 and work backwards. If you have trouble with this, send me a list of Petrovs' games and I'll construct the pairings. It only takes a minute or two once or two. If the result doesn't match the information you have, then a different system of pairing of used and I probably can't help you. |
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Sep-16-18
 | | Phony Benoni: <jfq> Hold on -- I read the rouind numbers round. Petrovs had Blackin rounds 5 and 6, which makes him player #11. |
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Sep-16-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni> That is a most stunning and generous offer, I can't thank you enough! If you can figure this out, then we can at least prepare <Kemeri 1939> for future promotion, provided cg.com ever starts uploading new games and correction slips again. At present, cg.com has already published 87 of 120 games for this event: Game Collection: Kemeri 1939 International Tournament Should I send you the list of Petrovs round numbers and dates by email, or post it here in your house? My email is jessicafischerqueen@yahoo.com |
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Sep-16-18
 | | Phony Benoni: <jfq> Just sent you an e-mail. You can reply to it or post here, whichever is easier. |
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Sep-16-18
 | | Tabanus: You can also check vs Postimees. I think they have all rounds + dates. For example, https://dea.digar.ee/cgi-bin/dea?a=... reports of round 4, from a phone call from Flohr to Keres! |
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Sep-16-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
I just sent it to you, thank you so much!! |
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Sep-16-18
 | | Phony Benoni: E-mail returned. Hope everything checks out. |
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Sep-16-18
 | | Phony Benoni: <jfq> I just noticed tht the Kemeri collection has gamves from both Tenis Melngailis and Emilis Melngailis, who are two different people. Emilis was born in1874, so I suspect Temis (b.1911) is the correct player. Bu this needs to be checked. |
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Sep-16-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni> I also noticed that, and I share your opinion. In addition to the ages of the players, the biography of <Emilis> has this to say: <EMILIS MELNGAILIS
(born Feb-15-1874, died Dec-20-1954, 80 years old) Latvia Latvian composer and folklorist. His son <<<Tenis Melngailis played in the 1939 Kemeri tournament.>>>> I find it highly doubtful that they played this event together as a father and son "tag team." I will check in the Encyclopedia for Latvian Chess Players for further information. |
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Sep-16-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni>
Is there a connection between <The Hamburger Table> and the infamous <Summer Hamburger Numbers>? They sound very similar to me, but you can't really go by me, since I rarely know what I'm talking about at the best of times. |
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Sep-17-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni> on "the Melngailis affair" good and bad news... Good news: <hemy> has provided contemporaneous documentary evidence proving that it was <Tenis Melngailis> who played at <Kemeri 1939>, as you suspected: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xzsui9frd... Source of photograph: "Stāsti un Romāni", March 25, 1939, p. 14. Bad news: It may be a long time, gusting up to never, for any correction slip on this issue to be processed. I have no confirmation that even one new game has been uploaded to cg.com, or one new correction slip processed, since <Daniel> died. I am thinking of asking in the <Cranky Biographer's Bistro> and the <Even Crankier cg.com forum page> if any member can confirm that they have succeeded in uploading a game or getting a correction slip processed since <Daniel> died. I have several items on queue related to <Vladimirs Petrovs> but none of them has been processed. I am hesitant to submit any more items until I know somebody is actually driving this ship. |
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Sep-17-18
 | | Phony Benoni: <jessicafischerqueen> Good to have confirmation on the Melngailis question. The Steak of Contemporaneous Documentary Evidence beats Hamberger every time. I'm rather cranky about the game / correction slip submission situation myself.what with nearly 4,000 US Open games waiting to be sent in plus those from the ACB project. But there seems no reason to add to the mess until maters get resolved oone way or another. |
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Sep-17-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni> Yes I just posted about that in my forum. <hemy> and I are not uploading any more new <Petrovs> games until we hear that new games are in fact being uploaded at all. I did however submit an <Emilis Melngailis> game today. If it is ever published, his bio page may survive in the long run, since every single game in there right now was played by his son. I really hope this is not an issue of the new bosses not knowing how to work <Daniel's> game publishing code. |
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Sep-17-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen: Oh there is this though- one (1) of my correction slips was in fact recently fixed by the new management: Viktors Rosenbergs Victors Rosenbergs should be changed to Viktors Rosenbergs Submitted July 18, 2018
<CORRECTION COMPLETED> |
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Sep-18-18
 | | Phony Benoni: Black's last move was suicide, but it was mate in any event and the Will to Live can only go so far. [Event "Gudmundur Arasib Ut *Ioeb("]
[Site "Hafnarfjordur ISL"]
[Date "1996.12.15"]
[EventDate "1996.12.13"]
[Round "3"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Leosson, Torfi"]
[Black "Burden, James"]
[ECO ""]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Source "TWIC"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be2 e5 7.Nb3 Be7 8.Be3 Be6 9.f4 Qc7 10.f5 Bc4 11.g4 h6 12.Qd2 b5 13.Bf3 b4 14.Ne2 a5 15.Ng3 Nbd7 16.Qg2 Bb5 17.h4 a4 18.Nd2 Qxc2 19.g5 Ng8 20.Nh5 Bf8 21.g6 f6 22.Be2 Bc6 23.0-0 Nc5 24.Rfc1 Qxb2 25.Nc4 Bxe4 26.Qf1 a3 27.Nxb2 axb2 28.Bxc5 dxc5 29.Bf3 bxa1Q 30.Rxa1 Bxf3 31.Qxf3 Rc8 32.Qb7  click for larger viewRd8 33.Qf7# . 1-0 |
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Sep-28-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni>
<The Steak of Contemporaneous Documentary Evidence beats Hamberger every time.> Unless there is a misteak!
We have uncovered three errors in the contemporaneous steak for <Kemeri 1939> round pairings. Luckily the hamburger table caught the misteaks. I fear it might be necessary to have *both* hamburger and steak for the finest, and most accurate, dining experience? Here is scienceterrific evidence:
Vladimir Petrov (kibitz #775) |
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Sep-28-18
 | | Phony Benoni: <jessicafischerqueen: > Food for thought.
Looking at the final position of the games in question, there is no doubt that the Berger Table method had the colors right. I'm just glad the games weren't draws! |
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Sep-28-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Food for thought> lol Interestingly, one of the reasons the Hamburger table was chosen for chess purposes was that these tables typically have a checkered pattern table cloth. It's a scientific fact! |
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Sep-29-18 | | Travis Bickle: Hey Phony, what are you guys trying to get to the Superbowl? Putting a whooping on New England! |
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Sep-29-18
 | | Phony Benoni: I'm not getting too excited yet, Travis; New England had a lot of injuries and never play their best in September. Let's see what happens against the Cowboys, and other good teams like the First Place Bears. (Good grief, who opened the door and let 1985 back in?) |
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Oct-01-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
Is it time for a <Mike Ditka> comeback? I mean on the field, not just on the sidelines. |
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Oct-01-18
 | | Phony Benoni: Nah, Ditka couldn't coach these days. Just that look on his face would draw a penalty for Unnecessary Roughness. |
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Oct-01-18
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Phony Benoni> By "comeback" I meant him actually playing in the games, wearing the Bears uniform and all of that gear that they wear in "American Foots Balls." |
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