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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 134 OF 914 ·
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| Dec-08-09 | | Jim Bartle: The Tigers are trading Granderson to the Yankees and Edwin Jackson to Arizona? Boo. |
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| Dec-08-09 | | A.G. Argent: Oh, very much BOOO! I hate that. My favorite Tiger, Curtis. |
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Dec-08-09
 | | Phony Benoni: Everybody in Detroit hates to see Granderson go. Good player, great person, highly respected. Looking at it coldly, though, you have to wonder a bit about his skills. He seems to be in a home run groove, but has lost the ability to hit for a high average and has never stopped striking out. His speed is a great asset, but he's not using it except in the field. Still it was a bit of a shock to see him go. On the other hand, I fully expected Jackson to leave; his value will never be higher. Tigers are trying to cut payroll, since the economic situation around here doesn't bode well for future revenues. Granderson and Jackson don't make that much money at the moment, but keeping them in the future was going to be hard and there are a lot of bad guaranteed contracts that can't be dumped. They got four young players with a total of five years of major league experience. If all goes well, they'll fill the holes left by Jackson and Granderson with young, inexpensive talent. If all doesn't go well... <Max Scherzer> is 25, with two years experience. He started thirty games for Arizona last year, going 9-11 with a 4.12 ERA. What the Tigers really like is that he struck out 174 batters in 170 innings, and had about a 3-1 SO-BB ratio. I expect he'll be taking Jackson's place in the rotation. <Daniel Schlereth> (23) from the Diamondbacks and <Phil Coke> (27) from the Yankees were situational left-handers. Coke was used far more, appearing in 70 games, and will probably get a chance to fill a more important role. <Austin Jackson> is a top Yankees prospect. At age 22, he played 132 games for Triple A Scranton/Wilkes Barre, batting .300 with 4 HR, 65 RBI, 24 SB, 40 WK, 123 SO. Primarily a CF, made two errors in the outfield with 5 assists. Austin Jackson is the key. He's slated to replace Granderson in CF and the lead-off spot, but is totally untested. I find it a bit ominous that the Yankees didn't even call him up for a cup of coffee last year, and they certainly had outfield troubles at times. Also, his numbers don't strike me as those of a promising lead-off hitter. In short, one of those gambles dictated by payroll considerations. If it doesn't pan out, fans may start screaming for the return of Matt Millen. |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Jim Bartle: Still, it must get old developing players to the brink of stardom, then having to send them to the Yankees or Sox or Dodgers because you can't pay them. I wonder what attitude ESPN will take with Schlereth, as his father is one of their football commentators. |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Travis Bickle: Ron Santo for the Hall Of Fame!!! Compare his stats with another HOF 3rd baseman and ask your self why???!! http://www.thebaseballpage.com/play...
http://www.thebaseballpage.com/play... |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Travis Bickle: Santo had 2,511 less at bats than Robinson and yet Ron hit 342 homeruns compared to Brook's 268 facing guys like Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Seaver and Marichal! |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Travis Bickle: Santo even had a higher OPS than Robinson! ; P
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/4-... |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Travis Bickle: No comments from all you baseball afficiandos and pontificators!? |
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Dec-08-09
 | | Phony Benoni: Gosh,, <Travis> I don't know if anybody around here disagrees with you about Ron Santo. If the Veterans Committee ever gives me a ballot, he's gonna be on it. We're all too busy looking up what in the heck OPS are, and why they qualify you for the Hall of Fame. For instance, Norm Cash hit 35 more home runs than Ron Santo in 1400 fewer at bats, and clobbers him in OPS (whatever that is) by .862-.826. Lies, darn lies, and statistics. |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Jim Bartle: I think Santo deserves to be in the HOF. However Brooks Robinson is not in the Hall primarily because of his hitting, so I don't see the point of the argument. Santo was a better hitter than Robinson; I don't think anybody would argue that. So were Matt Williams and Troy Glaus (is he still active?), and I don't think we'll ever see campaigns to get them in the HOF. But if we're going to compare: there were great pitchers in both leagues, you can't just say Santo faced better pitchers. But what you can say with confidence is that Santo played in a park much more favorable to hitters than Robinson did. I don't have information for Santo's and Robinson's era(s), but I do for the same two parks from 1976 to 1985. Over those ten years more than 25% more runs were scored in Cubs home games than in Cubs road games. That's a huge difference, which inflates Cubs' batting records. Over the same ten years, 7% fewer runs were scored in Baltimore home games than Baltimore road games. Meaning that Orioles' batting stats were hurt slightly by their home park. So Robinson's batting record is not nearly as bad compared to Santo's as a quick glance would suggest. |
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Dec-08-09
 | | WannaBe: Santa does not belong in the HOF, he's done nothing but build toys and abuse the reindeers, if you know what I mean!!! |
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Dec-08-09
 | | Phony Benoni: No, no, no! We're talking about Troy Glaus, not Santa Glaus. (Who, by the way, hit .172 in 12 games for St. Louis last year and is probably through.) |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Travis Bickle: JB are you comparing Cubs runs scored in that time frame or opposition and Cubs runs? As You know The Cubs didnt have Jim Palmer Mike Cuellar Dave McNally and Pat Dobson. The reason I ask with most years the Cubs pitching was shaky to say the least. Maybe your run percentage might be more the opposing team than the Cubs. |
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Dec-08-09
 | | WannaBe: my bad, I should get rid of my John Lenon glasses and get some real ones... |
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Dec-08-09
 | | Phony Benoni: <Travis> I think the argument is more that Wrigley Field is more suited for hitting than whatever field Baltimore played at in those days. Sort of the Colorado Rockies factor. (And who knows? Maybe the biggest factor in the Cubs' inferior pitching was the wind blowing out at Wrigley.) I could do a little research about this, but I don't know to what purpose. Robinson was fortunate enough to become a legend in his own time, and was voted in. Santo, outside of Chicago, didn't have that same image and must wait for the Veterans Committee to wise up. |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Travis Bickle: Here's some more Pro Santo info for you Hall voters. ; P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXNF...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Sa... |
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| Dec-08-09 | | Jim Bartle: No, Travis, I am comparing ALL runs scored (both teams) in Cubs home games vs. all runs scored in Cubs away games. By the way, over those same ten years the Cubs hit 449 home runs on the road, and 663 at home. Wrigley Field is a fantastic home run park, obviously, and Cubs home run totals are inflated because of this. On the other hand, Cubs pitching is a lot better than it seems at a glance. |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Jim Bartle: Bill James rates Santo #87 on his all-time list, Robinson #91. |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Jim Bartle: Looking at James' Top 100, I really question a few things. First, it just shows how futile it is to compare pitchers and position players. And can it really be that 10 of the greatest 13 players of all time were outfielders? Five of them centerfielders? http://baseballevolution.com/top100... Not sure what year this list was made. Obviously today Bonds would be higher, and players like Alex Rodriguez, Mark McGwire and maybe Derek Jeter and Albert Pujols would be on it. |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Travis Bickle: Thanks for the info JB. |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Travis Bickle: I have to question Joe Morgan at #15?? Morgan ahead of Mike Scmidt & Frank Robinson to name just a few! They have considered Ryne Sandberg as an all around better 2nd baseman than Joe Morgan that's why when at an AllStar game recently Morgan wouldn't go on the field because Sandberg was there! |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Jim Bartle: Sandberg was great, but Morgan was the best 2B ever. And yes, I have no problem with Morgan rating ahead of Schmidt or Frank Robinson. |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Travis Bickle: JB That's your opinion I have mine. Last time I checked Frank Robinson and Mike Schimdt both hit over 500 homeruns were just as good if not better clutch hitters and better fielders than Morgan! The only thing Morgan could do better than those two was steal bases. Don't forget the pitches the #2 in the line-up Morgan got to swing at with that Big Red machine coming up behind him!! Morgan did not have the range at 2nd that Sandberg did or the power. |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Travis Bickle: On the lighter side. Here is that infamous day back in April 23, 1983 when a loosing Cubs team and media pressure blew Lee Elia's mind HAHAHA!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diqm...
P.S. For the uncensored version I am currently working on tracking it down and posting it on my forum ASAP. ; P |
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| Dec-09-09 | | Jim Bartle: You can't simply compare a second baseman's hitting straight up with a third baseman or an outfielder. The demands of fielding the position means that good hitters are much harder to find. Sandberg definitely had more power, but not that much. In the heart of his career, his first seven years with the Reds, Morgan hit from 16 to 27 a year. He played his first seven years for the Astros, and the Astrodome was probably the toughest home run park in history. If you could check his record, I'll bet Morgan typically hit about 10 homers a year on the road and two or three at home. In the heart of his career Sandberg hit from 15 to 30 homers a year, plus one big year with 40. I'd say you probably have to lop 15% off of that to compensate for Wrigley, and you've got 13 to 26 per year, with one year at 34. Better than Morgan, but not by all that much. |
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