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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 48 OF 129 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-23-07 | | Marco65: <EmperorAtahualpa> Welcome! At last we are together on a consultation game. I still remember when you accepted me as a substitute in another consultation game, and the game ended before I could make my first move! |
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| Feb-23-07 | | Marco65: <TheAlchemist> They would probably play 12.h4. I think we can play 12...Nde5 like in Nemes-Holestak (courtesy as usual of <TTLump>) because 13.f4?! can be met by 13...Qb6 and at a first look the resulting chaos should be in our favour: 14.fxe5 dxe5 15.Nf5 Qxb2 and now:
a) 16.Na4 Qb4 17.c3 Qxe4 18.Nxg7+ Kf8 19.Rh3 Kxg7 
b) 16.Nxe7? Qxc3+ 17.Bd2?? Qg3+ 18.Ke2 Nd4#
c) 16.Nxg7+ Kf8 17.Nxe6+ Bxe6 18.Bd2 Nd4 19.Bd3 Nf3+ 20.Kf2 Nxd2 21.Qxd2 Bb4 22.Na4 Qd4+ 23.Qe3 Qxe3+ 24.Kxe3 b5 25.Nb2 Bc3 26.Rhb1  This is not a "real" analysis of course, I was just moving the pieces on the board, the tree of variation is very wide and I'm too lazy to fully examine it (but we'll have to if 12.h4 Nde5 gets played!) Against 12.f4 Qb6 wouldn't be so effective because nothing is really threated (when a knight is in e5 the threat is 13...Nxd4 14.Bxd4 Qxd4!). But your idea of 12...h6 seems very interesting, I would add that 13.gxh6 Bh4+ is very bad for Black. The game might continue 13.h4 hxg5 14.fxg5 Cce5 15.Be2 and Black is better, we could continue by ...b5,...Bb7,...Nc5 attacking e4 in "najdorf" style. Just analysis of a sleepy guy. Be careful. Good night. |
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| Feb-23-07 | | Swapmeet: Any thoughts on 12.h4 Na5, with the idea of playing b5? I don't have any experience in these positions so I'll trust the experts. b5 seems to be one of black's main ideas, so it would seem logical to me to use the extra a6 to play an early b5. |
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| Feb-23-07 | | chessmoron: If they play 12.h4, is it too early to castle? |
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| Feb-24-07 | | Marco65: <I don't have any experience in these positions so I'll trust the experts> I think everybody is out of his "garden" at this point and we are just using our own judgement with the aid of a couple of residual master games, so don't trust anybody! |
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Feb-24-07
 | | TheAlchemist: <Marco> 13...Qb6 is a very good find. I guess White has to try 13.Bg2 or 13.Be2 instead. After 13.Be2, which I would choose, so that the g-file is free for the rooks, the threat of 14.f4 seems more serious, the variation of, say, 13...Qc7 14.f4 Qb6 15.fxe5 dxe5 16.Nxc6 doesn't work. The problem is also that after the, in my opinion, intended Nxd4 Bxd4 Nc6 the g7 pawn falls. It seems that 13...O-O is therefore best, although it seems as it's asking for trouble :-). Now, the g7 pawn is protected and the combination Nxd4 Bxd4 Nc6 is possible. The draw was agreed rather quickly in that game, with a lot of play left. I'm wondering whether White can instead try for a quick h5-g6 push, but that has to be prepared, i.e. defending the g5 pawn first, with something like 14.Qd2. But after something like 14.Qd2 Nxd4 15.Bxd4 Nc6 16.Be3 b5 17.O-O-O b4 18.Na4 Qa5 we seem to be doing well. How about 14.Rg1? 14...Nxd4 15.Bxd4 Nc6 16.Be3 b5 17.h5 b4 18.Na4 Rb8, but here we don't have anything concrete to attack on the queenside, compared to when white plays O-O-O. Ok, but just for fun... 19.g6 Qa5 20.gxh7 Kxh7 (or is Kh8 better?) 21.b3 (h6 is met by g6), and here I'm kind of stuck. |
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| Feb-24-07 | | Zebra: I guess the key question here is whether we want to castle early or defer it and get our queenside going. Sometimes if black is going to castle in these positions it's better to do it early, move the KR out and free f8 for the knight or bishop as needed. However I am in two minds about this. By the way I have a hunch for f4 as white's next move - trying to have a look at it. |
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| Feb-24-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <To be consistent, I'd like you to post a brief description of yourself, so I can put it in my profile.> How about this:
"No. 11, from the Netherlands, a 25-year old Inca emperor who defeated his Spanish prison guards in chess, but actually likes French openings, the cosmopolitan EmperorAtahualpa!!" :) |
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| Feb-24-07 | | Zebra: <swapmeet> I am a bit uneasy about decentralizing our knight at this stage. Certainly we want to get control of c4, but maybe Qc7 and later b5 is better. Nb6 is another interesting move, attacking c4 and supporting a d5 break. |
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| Feb-24-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <Welcome aboard. We now have an emperor and a queen as well as a captain and an assassin...> <Zebra> Don't forget we also have an alchemist and...a zebra. :p |
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| Feb-24-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: I will post my thoughts about the opening of this game later tonight, and I will also have a look in MCO-14 to see if I can find some useful resources there. |
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| Feb-24-07 | | hitman84: <TTLump>The game was setup for analysing purposes. Click on "analyse the board". <TheAlchemist>You could add the link on your bio. <Swapmeet>Yes Na5, b5 is the main idea but I'd play Qc7 first. <chessmoron>Castling is too early I feel. White might go for a castles queenside. |
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Feb-24-07
| | TheAlchemist: <You could add the link on your bio> I did. |
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| Feb-24-07 | | chessmoron: PART I:
[Event "?"]
[Site "Manila"]
[Date "1976.??.??"]
[White "Greenberg "]
[Black "Peterson,Andrei "]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Round "?"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. h3 e6 7. g4 Nc6
8. g5 Nd7 9. Be3 Be7 10. h4 Nxd4 11. Qxd4 Ne5 12. Be2 O-O 13. O-O-O b5 14. Rdg1 Qa5
15. Kb1 Bd7 16. f4 Nc6 17. Qd2 b4 18. Nd1 Na7 19. Bc4 Bc6 20. Nf2 d5 21. Bb3 dxe4
22. h5 Bd5 23. g6 Nc6 24. Ng4 f5 25. h6 hxg6 26. Qh2 fxg4 27. hxg7 Kxg7 28. Qh7+ Kf6
29. Rxg4 Rg8 30. Rh6 1-0
[Event "?"]
[Site "Wijk aan Zee II"]
[Date "1972.??.??"]
[White "Ribli "]
[Black "Cortlever "]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Round "?"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. h3 e6 7. g4 Nc6
8. g5 Nd7 9. Be3 Be7 10. h4 Qc7 11. f4 Na5 12. Qe2 b5 13. Bh3 Nb6 14. f5 b4
15. Nd1 e5 16. Nb3 Nac4 17. O-O a5 18. Nc1 Bb7 19. f6 gxf6 20. gxf6 Bf8 21. Kh2 Nxe3
22. Nxe3 Bxe4 23. Nd3 Bc6 24. Nf5 Nd7 25. Nd4 Bb7 26. a3 Kd8 27. Rae1 bxa3 28. bxa3 Qc4
29. Nf5 e4 30. Ng3 Rc8 31. Bxd7 Kxd7 32. Qg4+ Qe6 33. Qxe6+ fxe6 34. Nxe4 Rxc2+ 35. Kh3 e5
36. Rg1 Bxe4 37. Rxe4 Ke6 38. Ra4 Bh6 39. Rxa5 Rf8 40. Ra7 Be3 41. Re7+ Kxf6 42. Rgg7 Rc3
43. Nb4 Bh6+ 44. Kg4 Rc4+ 45. Kh5 Rxb4 46. Rxh7 Rd4 47. Kxh6 0-1 [Event "?"]
[Site "Mar del Plata"]
[Date "1972.??.??"]
[White "Pelikan,J "]
[Black "Vidal,R "]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B95"]
[Round "4"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. g4 Be7
8. Be3 Nc6 9. g5 Nd7 10. h4 Qc7 11. f4 Nc5 12. Nxc6 Qxc6 13. Bg2 Bd7 14. Bd4 Bf8
15. Qe2 Na4 16. Nd5 O-O-O 17. Bxg7 Rg8 18. Nb4 Qb6 19. Bxf8 Qxb4+ 20. c3 Qxb2 21. Qxb2 Nxb2
22. Be7 Rde8 23. Bxd6 Bb5 24. Bf1 Bc6 25. Rh2 Na4 26. e5 Nxc3 27. Rc1 Nb5 28. Rd2 Rd8
1/2-1/2
[Event "?"]
[Site "Sochi"]
[Date "1963.??.??"]
[White "Ciocaltea,Victor "]
[Black "Bobotsov,Milko "]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Round "8"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. h3 e6 7. g4 Nc6
8. g5 Nd7 9. Be3 Be7 10. h4 O-O 11. Be2 Rb8 12. f4 Nxd4 13. Qxd4 b5 14. f5 b4
15. fxe6 bxc3 16. exd7 cxb2 17. Rb1 Bxd7 18. O-O Bb5 19. c4 Bc6 20. Bf3 f6 21. g6 hxg6
22. Rf2 Qa5 23. Rfxb2 Rxb2 24. Rxb2 Qe5 25. Qxe5 fxe5 26. Bg2 Ra8 27. Rb6 Be8 28. Bg5 Bxg5
29. hxg5 Bf7 30. Bf1 Rc8 31. Rxa6 Bxc4 32. Rxd6 Bxf1 33. Kxf1 Rc4 1/2-1/2 |
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| Feb-24-07 | | chessmoron: PART II:
[Event "ch-PERw"]
[Site "Lima PER"]
[Date "2004.??.??"]
[White "Perez,Vanessa "]
[Black "Mendoza,Sarahy "]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Round "3.1"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. h3 e6 7. g4 Be7
8. g5 Nfd7 9. h4 Nc6 10. Be3 Qc7 11. Qd2 Nde5 12. f4 Nxd4 13. O-O-O Nxc2 14. Qxc2 Nc6
15. Bg2 Rb8 16. Rhf1 b5 17. a3 b4 18. axb4 Rxb4 19. Bd2 Nd4 20. Qd3 Bd7 21. Kb1 Qb6
22. Bc1 a5 23. Qe3 Ba4 24. Nxa4 Rxa4 25. Rd3 Qb5 26. Rxd4 Rxd4 27. Qxd4 Qc6 28. Qxg7 Rf8
29. Qxh7 Qb5 30. g6 Qe2 31. g7 1-0
[Event "?"]
[Site "Moscow"]
[Date "1994.??.??"]
[White "Qadi "]
[Black "D'Auriac "]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Round "4"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. h3 e6 7. g4 Be7
8. g5 Nfd7 9. h4 Nc6 10. Be3 Qc7 11. f4 b5 12. Nxc6 Qxc6 13. Qd4 Qc5 14. Qd2 Qc7
15. Bd4 Rg8 16. f5 Ne5 17. Bxe5 dxe5 18. fxe6 Bxe6 19. Nd5 Bxd5 20. exd5 Rc8 21. O-O-O Bd6
22. Bd3 g6 23. h5 Rd8 24. Kb1 Qe7 25. a4 Qb7 26. axb5 axb5 27. Qa5 Rb8 28. Rhf1 Qb6
29. Qc3 Qc5 30. hxg6 hxg6 31. Qxc5 Bxc5 32. d6 Kd7 33. Be2 Bxd6 34. Rf6 Rb6 35. Bxb5+ Ke7
36. c4 Rf8 37. Rdf1 Rbb8 38. b4 Rb7 39. Re1 Rd8 40. Kc2 Kf8 41. Kb3 Be7 42. Rf3 Bxg5
43. Rxe5 Be7 44. Rfe3 Rdb8 45. Re1 Ra7 46. R1e2 Rba8 47. c5 Rb8 48. Kc4 Rab7 49. Kd5 Rc7
50. Kc4 Rbb7 1-0
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| Feb-24-07 | | Marco65: <TheAlchemist> I told you I was sleepy. After further analysis I'm convinced we shouldn't play 12.h4 Nde5 here. 13.f4 seems actually strong: a) As you noticed 13...Nxd4 14.Bxd4 Nc6 just loses g7. b) After 13...Qb6?! 14.fxe5 dxe5 15.Nf5 Qxb2 16.Nxg7+ Kf8 17.Bd2 (that's the point: it's more important to force Black to waste a tempo to get the piece back rather than restoring the material balance with 17.Nxe6) 17...Kxg7 18.Rb1 Qa3 19.h5
click for larger view
In this position White succeeds in opening files against our king after 19...Rd8 (19...Bxg5? 20.Rg1 h6 21.Bxg5  and other moves allow 20.h6+ Kf8 blocking the rook) 20.g6. I think it's a much worse version of the Poisoned Pawn. Unless there's a fault in my analysis (it wouldn't be the first!) my vote after 12.h4 will be for 12...Qc7 |
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| Feb-24-07 | | Marco65: <chessmoron> Could you provide ELO or level of the players? I know only a few of them |
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| Feb-24-07 | | chessmoron: IDK. It doesn't show. |
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Feb-24-07
| | TheAlchemist: Ribli is a GM, Pelikan, Bobotsov, Ciocaltea at least IM, Cortlever probably too. Good company! |
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| Feb-25-07 | | laskereshevsky: <TheAlchemist: <laskereshevsky> Isn't that from La Leggenda Del Pianista Sull' Oceano (Legend Of 1900)? I think Max (Taylor Vince) said that. That's one of my favorite movies.> YES. U got it...bravo ( its my favorite too)
U now, this movie is considered WONDERFUL by almost everybody in Europe, except by a lot of ITALIAN's movies critics!......( SNOB PEOPLES....) |
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| Feb-25-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: Hi guys, sorry I'm only posting today because last night something came in between. I checked MCO-14 and sadly it was not of terribly much help. :( The reason why: because after 6...Ng4 White is assumed to play 7.Bg5 and not 7.Bc1! But I did find some slightly similar positions and in a lot of those positions MCO recommends ...Qc7, so I think that would be a solid move for us to make at some point. (of course it also depends on what our opponents are going to move next). |
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| Feb-25-07 | | Marco65: <EA> Have a look at the games posted by chessmoron and that now are in TheAlchemist's profile. This position is typically reached via a different move order. Maybe that helps find it in MCO. |
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Feb-25-07
| | TheAlchemist: 12.h4 was played. |
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| Feb-25-07 | | Marco65: I already discussed 12...Nde5 that was once my favourite but now I think is dubious. I'm still in favour of 12...Qc7, a flexible move preparing ...b5. |
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Feb-26-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: This might sound crazy, but I think we should castle- now... Qc7 prepares b5, fine..
But no matter what move we make now they are certain to play h5, no? I know it sounds paradoxical, but we might well defend the pawn storm better after 0-0... our king then defends all three pawns from g1, and there's no way I can see that they can force a capture of our h7 or g7 pawn or force them to move in a way that opens our h or g file. And as long as our king can hang in there behind at least two pawns- g and h pawns- I think we can hold better than if we leave our king in the center. If we prepare queen side expansion now, the pawn storm on our kingside could well result in a position where our king is stuck in the center-- permanently. So i urge all of you to consider <0-0> now- or it may be never. |
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