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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 111 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| May-28-14 | | Karpova: Regarding the footnotes:
<8> This is Tarrasch's match book, a 2009 version which is almost identical to the 1908 original. However, the page numbers differ, so I inserted information on the chapter also. I'm also not sure how the information original publisher/date and new publisher/date shall look like. <13> This looks different from all the others, as I didn't consult this source. It was taken over from Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Marshall 1907 as it was the source for the Maroczy negotiations there. <20> This is a whole supplement to the 'Wiener Schachzeitung', based on Dr. Lasker's reports from the 'Pester Lloyd'. I wonder how far the 'Pester Lloyd' should be mentioned in this footnote, maybe a link to the ANNO page. To name all the single, larger reports by Dr. Lasker seems impractical, as this would turn the footnote into a huge chunk of letters and numbers. |
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May-28-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
<Karpova>
I transferred your new version to the top of the mirror under the heading NEW DRAFT EDIT <Karpova> The old draft is now at the bottom of the mirror.
Please check to see if I made any mistake?
A very interesting story. I enjoy reading this draft. |
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| May-29-14 | | Karpova: <Jess>
Thanks, Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 looks fine except for links in footnotes <3> and <20>. Furthermore, a new paragraph begins with "The match began on August 17..." |
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| May-29-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 Footnote <5>
As you can see, I threw out the 'Wiener Schachzeitung' and inserted the original text from 'Lasker's Chess Magazine' you provided. However, footnote <5> was used two times. The first time for the Tarrasch description, the second time for the 1904 WC match challenge (that's why I had previously quoted pages 95-96 of the 'Wiener Schachzeitung' there). I don't know on which page Lasker mentions the 1904 challenge in the original text. So the page number may have to be adjusted. |
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May-29-14
| | WCC Editing Project:
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 Ok thanks <Karpova>. I will look for the original page number in "Lasker's Chess Magazine." |
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| May-29-14 | | Boomie: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 <NEW DRAFT EDIT>
<(lat. teacher of Germany)> That should probably be "Lat." But I don't really know what the convention is here. |
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| May-29-14 | | Boomie: Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 <NEW DRAFT EDIT>
<Furthermore, Lasker negotiated for a world championship match with Maroczy in 1906, but finally without success.> My spidey sense tells me this sentence needs help. I don't have the solution yet. Perhaps the Commaczar or the other steamed editors can weigh in on this one. |
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| May-29-14 | | dakgootje: Simply delete 'finally'? Or do we want to stress some extended period of time? And we could remove the first comma, by swapping Lasker & furthermore. But other than that, it sounds okay to me. The combination 'negotiated for' strikes me as a bit odd - but apparently it's used often, so no remarks there. -- Question Time! For $20 and a package of biscuits: Was the draft concerning Lasker-Janowki 1910 finished - or is Laskar Tarrash 1908 an intermezzo? A brief summertime excursion? I'm a bit confuzzled :) |
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May-29-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <In the late 1880s, he established himself as one of the strongest chessplayers in the world with several tournament successes.> I think it would be safe to save 5 letters and just say "players". My spidey sense doesn't like "several tournament successes". <Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess, being a practicing physician.> The last clause is a bit awkward, but I don't see a good alternative. The sentence probably would read better if the practicing physician clause was first. <he is also famous for propagating and deepening chess> That doesn't work at all.
< He visited Lasker in Berlin in March 1904, suggesting to postpone the match until next year.> I'd replace "to" with "they", and change the last clause to "the next year". <His success in Marshall - Tarrasch (1905) induced Gebhardt, chairman of the German Chess Federation> If we don't have Gebhart's first name, "Herr" would be a nice addition. <but finally without success.> I'd prefer "ultimately".
<A good opportunity for negotiations, was offered in February 1908, with Lasker visiting Europe again after four years.> Definitely dele the comma after "negotiations". I'd prefer <A good opportunity for negotiations arose in February 1908, when Lasker visited Europe again after four years.> <7,500 Mark (instead of originally demanded 15,000 Mark)> "Marks" in both cases.
<4,000 Mark, while the loser got 2,500 Marks.> 4000 marks. I don't care for the comma in 7500, 4000, and 2500. <The arbiter was Otto Rosenfeld and Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.> I don't like the first sentence conjoining the arbiter and Tarrasch's second. I'd prefer two short sentences. <Several commentators considered Tarrasch to have played below his ability and the result not to be representative of his true strength, yet Lasker's victory was regarded to be deserved as he had demonstrated his superiority.> This needs some tightening up. Taking it under advisement. |
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| May-29-14 | | Karpova: <dakgootje: Was the draft concerning Lasker-Janowki 1910 finished - or is Laskar Tarrash 1908 an intermezzo? A brief summertime excursion? I'm a bit confuzzled :)> Lasker-Janowski 1910 is not finished yet, but it took longer than expected until Bronstein-Botvinnik was up, and so it the promoted draft had to be checked again, in between. Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 is simply an overhaul of the previous version, with new sources and a general update. Nothing unusual. |
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| May-29-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 <OCF: I think it would be safe to save 5 letters and just say "players". My spidey sense doesn't like "several tournament successes".> Any better way of expressing <several tournament successes>? Tarrasch's tournament successes were really outstanding. I'm okay with deleting <chess>, so please change In the late 1880s, he established himself as one of the strongest chessplayers in the world with several tournament successes.<1> to In the late 1880s, he established himself as one of the strongest players in the world with several tournament successes.<1> ---
Would
A practising physician, Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess.<3> read better?
---
Please change
He visited Lasker in Berlin in March 1904, suggesting to postpone the match until next year. to He visited Lasker in Berlin in March 1904, suggesting they postpone the match to the next year. ---
Please change
His success in Marshall - Tarrasch (1905) induced Gebhardt, chairman of the German Chess Federation, to contact the Manhattan Chess Club on November 24, 1905 to negotiate a match for the title. to His success in Marshall - Tarrasch (1905) induced Rudolf Gebhardt, chairman of the German Chess Federation, to contact the Manhattan Chess Club on November 24, 1905 to negotiate a match for the title. ---
Please change
Furthermore, Lasker negotiated for a world championship match with Maroczy in 1906, but finally without success.<13> to Furthermore, Lasker negotiated for a world championship match with Maroczy in 1906, but ultimately without success.<13> ---
Please change
A good opportunity for negotiations, was offered in February 1908, with Lasker visiting Europe again after four years.<12> to A good opportunity for negotiations arose in February 1908, when Lasker visited Europe again after four years.<12> ---
Please change
The chairmen of the German (Gebhardt) and Bavarian (Schenzel) Chess Federations persuaded Lasker to accept a lower honorarium of 7,500 Mark (instead of originally demanded 15,000 Mark), while Tarrasch even agreed to forego an honorarium. The winner was the first to win eight games with draws not counting and received 4,000 Mark, while the loser got 2,500 Marks.<15> <16> to The chairmen of the German (Gebhardt) and Bavarian (Schenzel) Chess Federations persuaded Lasker to accept a lower honorarium of 7,500 Marks (instead of originally demanded 15,000 Marks), while Tarrasch even agreed to forego an honorarium. The winner was the first to win eight games with draws not counting and received 4,000 Marks, while the loser got 2,500 Marks.<15> <16> ---
What about
Otto Rosenfeld was the arbiter.<18> Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> |
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| May-29-14 | | Karpova: Edward Winter's new feature article <Chess Seconds> may come in handy: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... |
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| May-29-14 | | dakgootje: <Lasker-Janowski 1910 is not finished yet, but it took longer than expected until Bronstein-Botvinnik was up, and so it the promoted draft had to be checked again, in between. Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 is simply an overhaul of the previous version, with new sources and a general update. Nothing unusual.> Alright, then I'm fully up to date again :)
<Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18>> I'd prefer a slightly different word-order:
Lasker's second in Düsseldorf was Appun, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> The two short preceding sentences look fine. |
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May-29-14
| | WCC Editing Project:
<Colleagues>
I have to go to work right now, but it's Friday here in Korea. Great editing as usual!!
After work today, I will put in the edits <Karpova> ordered for Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908. I will complete and send in the Botvinnik - Bronstein World Championship Match (1951) errata sheet tomorrow. ######################
<Karpova> and I will figure out which draft to put up next for "promotion" after we get in touch with each other. In the meantime, please note this post by <Karpova>: <Lasker-Janowski 1910 is not finished yet, but it took longer than expected until Bronstein-Botvinnik was up, and so it the promoted draft had to be checked again, in between. Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 is simply an overhaul of the previous version, with new sources and a general update. Nothing unusual.> I stress the "Nothing unusual" here.
When I know which draft we'll be putting on the editing block for the next promotion, I'll always let everyone know, at the top of the WCC profile and also with a post in everyone's personal chess forums. But when there are periods of inactivity here, of course any draft marked "finished" may be edited. I can only speak for myself, but in my case some of the drafts marked "finished" are not actually finished to the standard that all of us have now created. So if you start editing one of these, I'll let you know and ask you to please hold off on editing that particular draft until I can bring it "up to current standard." |
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May-29-14
| | OhioChessFan: Game Collection: WCC: Euwe-Alekhine Rematch 1937 <Immediately after losing his title to Max Euwe in Dec 1935, Alexander Alekhine challenged for the rematch which had been guaranteed in their initial contract.> Instead of "challenged for", how about the more exciting "demanded" |
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May-29-14
| | OhioChessFan: <A practising physician, Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess.<3> read better? >
Yes, although I prefer the American English "practicing". <What about
Otto Rosenfeld was the arbiter.<18> Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> > Yes. |
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May-29-14
| | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>
<<Immediately after losing his title to Max Euwe in Dec 1935, Alexander Alekhine challenged for the rematch which had been guaranteed in their initial contract.>Instead of "challenged for", how about the more exciting "demanded"> I like it, but I'd need a source that proved that's really what Johnny did. As it is, all the source says is that there was a guaranteed rematch in the contract. |
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May-30-14
| | WCC Editing Project:
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 I made all the changes <Karpova> asked for here: <please change
In the late 1880s, he established himself as one of the strongest chessplayers in the world with several tournament successes.<1> to In the late 1880s, he established himself as one of the strongest players in the world with several tournament successes.<1> ---
Please change
He visited Lasker in Berlin in March 1904, suggesting to postpone the match until next year. to He visited Lasker in Berlin in March 1904, suggesting they postpone the match to the next year. ---
Please change
His success in Marshall - Tarrasch (1905) induced Gebhardt, chairman of the German Chess Federation, to contact the Manhattan Chess Club on November 24, 1905 to negotiate a match for the title. to His success in Marshall - Tarrasch (1905) induced Rudolf Gebhardt, chairman of the German Chess Federation, to contact the Manhattan Chess Club on November 24, 1905 to negotiate a match for the title. ---
Please change
Furthermore, Lasker negotiated for a world championship match with Maroczy in 1906, but finally without success.<13> to Furthermore, Lasker negotiated for a world championship match with Maroczy in 1906, but ultimately without success.<13> ---
Please change
A good opportunity for negotiations, was offered in February 1908, with Lasker visiting Europe again after four years.<12> to A good opportunity for negotiations arose in February 1908, when Lasker visited Europe again after four years.<12> ---
Please change
The chairmen of the German (Gebhardt) and Bavarian (Schenzel) Chess Federations persuaded Lasker to accept a lower honorarium of 7,500 Mark (instead of originally demanded 15,000 Mark), while Tarrasch even agreed to forego an honorarium. The winner was the first to win eight games with draws not counting and received 4,000 Mark, while the loser got 2,500 Marks.<15> <16> to The chairmen of the German (Gebhardt) and Bavarian (Schenzel) Chess Federations persuaded Lasker to accept a lower honorarium of 7,500 Marks (instead of originally demanded 15,000 Marks), while Tarrasch even agreed to forego an honorarium. The winner was the first to win eight games with draws not counting and received 4,000 Marks, while the loser got 2,500 Marks.<15> <16>> #####################
<Karpova> also mentions- <<OCF: I think it would be safe to save 5 letters and just say "players". My spidey sense doesn't like "several tournament successes".> Karpova:
Any better way of expressing <several tournament successes>? Tarrasch's tournament successes were really outstanding. =============
Karpova:
Would
A practising physician, Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess.<3> read better?
==================
Karpova:
What about
Otto Rosenfeld was the arbiter.<18> Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> |
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May-30-14
| | WCC Editing Project:
<OhioEditingFan's> responses to two of <Karpova>'s questions: 1: <A practising physician, Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess.<3>
read better? >
Yes, although I prefer the American English "practicing". ==============
2: <What about
Otto Rosenfeld was the arbiter.<18> Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> > Yes.
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<JFQ> opinion:
I agree with <Ohio's> assessment on both counts, including "practicing" over "practising." |
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May-30-14
| | WCC Editing Project:
I'd like to add this to what I said earlier today:
Anyone should feel free to ask any question, or ask for clarification on any topic of any kind here in our forum. I will always respond promptly and do my best to answer such queries. |
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| May-30-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 Please change
Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess, being a practicing physician.<3> to A practicing physician, Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess.<3> ---
Please change
The arbiter was Otto Rosenfeld and Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> to Otto Rosenfeld was the arbiter.<18> Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second in Düsseldorf was Appun, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> |
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| May-30-14 | | Boomie: ->
<WCC Editing Project: Anyone should feel free to ask any question...> "Do you believe in petting on the first date?"
Sorry. I couldn't pass up such a juicy straight line. BTW - Hot Crossed Buns for the first to identify the source movie for that line. I now return you to your editing which is already in progress... |
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May-30-14
| | WCC Editing Project:
Game Collection: WCC: Lasker-Tarrasch 1908 These changes have been made:
<Please change
Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess, being a practicing physician.<3> to A practicing physician, Tarrasch declined as he couldn't devote that much time to chess.<3> ---
Please change
The arbiter was Otto Rosenfeld and Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second was Appun in Düsseldorf, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18> to Otto Rosenfeld was the arbiter.<18> Tarrasch's second was Heinrich Renner.<18> Lasker's second in Düsseldorf was Appun, while in Munich Schropp and Kollmann alternated.<18>> |
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May-30-14
| | WCC Editing Project:
<Ohio>
You were right about the inconsistent punctuation.
Horrifyingly, this is all my fault.
I have just sent Daniel a two part email:
The first part lists the corrections that <Karpova> and <you> found that had to do with errata that came from the <crawfb5-Daniel> HTMLization. The second part is an entirely re-written set of footnotes that I just made. The punctuation was totally inconsistent.
I made it consistent and I hope that <Daniel> can put the new version in. I'm really sorry you guys. I titled the email I sent to Daniel "Please don't kill me." At any rate, in future, on my new drafts I send for promotion, I will be sure to copy the template I now corrected- and proofread it properly. I also fixed the spelling mistakes in my original footnotes draft. Oy Vay this is embarrassing-
Apologies to all <Colleagues>. You work so hard, you deserve better than this. |
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May-30-14
| | OhioChessFan: <I titled the email I sent to Daniel "Please don't kill me."> I sure hope he doesn't. It'd ruin my whole day. Could we ummmmmmmm maybe see that rewritten set of footnotes? |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 111 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
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Kibitzing
