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WCC Editing Project
Member since Jul-19-13 · Last seen Aug-24-24
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   WCC Editing Project has kibitzed 3286 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Jun-07-15 Biographer Bistro (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar: Since I'm an adviser to editors, rather than an editor, I'm unfamiliar with what exactly editors can do.> I want to bring this post to your attention again: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #10966) It explains what editors can do and what not.
 
   May-31-15 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <chessgames.com> Maybe you overlooked this post Biographer Bistro (kibitz #11028) , since the Bistro has become rather fast-paced. An answer would be interesting to several people.
 
   May-29-15 WCC Editing Project chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Chessical> Thank you very much for your contribution(s)! We hope that you will support us in the future, also. For sure, you have helped us quite a lot already. The draft in question is already finished and was send away, though. It is still a valuable source and
 
   Apr-01-15 Moscow (1925) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Capablanca> on his experience at <Moscow 1925>: <"Although very philosophical, very observant and completely dispassionate in my judgment about everything concerning chess and its great exponents, I was nonetheless <<<unable to ...
 
   Mar-08-15 Tabanus chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: Ribli - Torre Candidates Quarterfinal (1983) Audiovisual aid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8G...
 
   Mar-08-15 Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929) (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <beatgiant> In case you want to read further on this topic, I have prepared a sourced timeline that summarizes the <Alekhine-Capablanca> rematch negotiations from 26 Feb 1929 - March 1935: Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE
 
   Jan-29-15 suenteus po 147 chessforum (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <One Third of the original "Big Three"> I beg your pardon! I'm on vacation in Canada, and I just now saw your post in the WCC forum. By "we" I meant the cg.com biographers, not the WCC project. All of the research compiled for additions to your intro was done by ...
 
   Nov-23-14 R Fuchs vs Tal, 1969 (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <MC Scarlett> If so, very very quietly...
 
   Nov-19-14 Alexander Alekhine (replies)
 
WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> Thanks for the correction! That sum makes more sense now in conjunction with the report on the organizers' losses. Good heavens- they can't have made much on ticket sales.
 
   Nov-17-14 E Walther vs Tal, 1966
 
WCC Editing Project: Queen trap Trick or Treat- this game was played on Halloween, 1966.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

WCC Editing Project

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 51 OF 127 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-09-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

NOTES

*FIDE (Fédération internationale des échecs or World Chess Federation), founded in 1924, first administered a world chess championship in 1948. http://www.fide.com/

**The USSR joined FIDE at The Hague conference of 1947. They arrived late on 2 Aug, the last day of the congress. http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...

<1> Erwin Voellmy, "Schweizerische Schachzeitung" (Nov 1946), pp.169-171. In Edward Winter, "Interregnum" (2003-2004) http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...

<2> Minutes of the FIDE Secretariat of the Congress in Winterthur in July 1946. In Edward Winter, "Interregnum"

<3> "CHESS" (Dec 1946), p.63. In Edward Winter, "Interregnum"

<4> Mikhail Botvinnik "Achieving the Aim." Bernard Cafferty, transl. Pergamon 1981), p.105-106

<5> Botvinnik, Achieving the Aim, p.108

<6> Erwin Voellmy, "Schweizerische Schachzeitung" (Oct 1947), pp. 154-55. In Edward Winter, "Interregnum"

<7> "Chess Review" (Aug 1947), p.2

<8> "American Chess Bulletin" (Jan-Feb 1948), p.11. In Edward Winter, "Interregnum"

<9> "American Chess Bulletin" (March-April 1948), p.25. In Edward Winter, "Interregnum"

<10> Paul Keres, "Match Tournament for the World Chess Championship- The Hague and Moscow 1948" (Estonian State Publishing 1950), p.7

<11> Harry Golombek, "The World Chess Championship 1948" (Harding Simpole 1949), p.3

<12> Botvinnik, "Achieving the Aim" p.111

<13> Golombek, p.4

<14> D.A. Yanofsky and H.J. Slavekoorde, "Battle Royal... A Round by Round Account of the Thrilling Contest for the World's Chess Title." ""Chess Life and Review" (April 1948), p.7

<15> Botvinnik, "Achieving the Aim" pp.113-14

<16> Mikhail Botvinnik, "15 Games and their Stories" Jim Marfia, transl. (Chess Enterprise Inc. 1982), pp. 40-42

<17> Golombek, p.126

<18> Taylor Kingston, "The Keres-Botvinnik case revisited: A further survey of the evidence" ("Chess Cafe," 8 Oct 2001), p.2. http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skitt...

<19> "Tim Krabbé’s on-line Chess Diary Item #65" (11 June 2000) http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/...
In Taylor Kingston, pp.3-4

<20> "Max Pam interview with Mikhail Botvinnik" Genna Sosonko, transl. (Vrij Nederland 20 Aug 1991)

In "Tim Krabbé’s on-line Chess Diary Item #42
http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/...

In Taylor Kingston, pp.4-5

<21> Genna Sosonko, "Russian Silhouttes 3d Edition" (New in Chess, 2009), p.42

Jan-10-14  Karpova: <Jess>

Very good Intro!

A few small points:

1) <*> and <**>

Why not regular footnotes, but a special kind? I don't see a need to introduce a second kind.

2) <According to a "Chess" (Dec 1946) article, Botvinnik announced to the others that he would not play in the Netherlands.>

The 'Chess' article is already mentioned in the footnote, so why the repetition in the text? To emphasize that this was not a direct quote from Botvinnik, but was reported in an article only? But as footnote <3> is cited before and afterwards, it could be left out here, e. g. <Botvinnik reportedly announced to the others that he would not play in the Netherlands.>

3) <The Russians were now members,**>

The Soviets...

4) <Scheviningen>

Scheveningen

5) <in front of 2000 spectators, with 3000 more>

2,000 and 3,000

6) <Some, including Larry Evans and Jan Timman,>

Player page links: Larry Melvyn Evans and Jan Timman and also Kenneth Whyld and Gennady Sosonko

7) <Botvinnik never relinquished his lead, clinching the title by round 22 to become the fifth world chess champion.>

1st Steinitz, 2nd Lasker, 3rd Capablanca, 4th Alekhine, 5th Euwe, 6th Botvinnik

8) The part about the collusion charges is interesting, but a possible question that may arise in the reader is: Why Botvinnik? He was not the only Soviet playing there, so why should the Soviet Union not simply want one of the Soviets to win, but specifically Botvinnik? Because he started out well and so they wanted to preserve his lead, or are they suspected to have planned for Botvinnik to become the new WC before?

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>

I can't thank you enough for such excellent edits.

I plan to use all your suggestions.

As for <punkt 8>, my sense of the existing research I looked at is:

<they suspected to have planned for Botvinnik to become the new WC before?> Yes, if you mean the period "after Alekhine's death and <before> the match tournament."

I can put a bit more information on that point, but I'll have to do some cutting. It's at 675 right now.

Thanks again!

Back soon...

Jan-10-14  Karpova: <Jess>

To elaborate a bit more on point 8. What I mean is the following: There is a whole paragraph devoted to collusion charges against Botvinnik and the Soviets.

Now the reader may ask himself the following:

1) Is it suspected that the Soviet Union only wanted <a Soviet> to become WC, and taking the lead early on, Botvinnik seemed to be the best bet - i. e. had Smyslov or Keres led the tournament the way Botvinnik did, is the USSR suspected to have the others collude to make Smyslov/Keres WC?

or

2) Is the Soviet Union suspected to have chosen Botvinnik as the new WC prior to the tournament, and Smyslov/Keres should help him from the commencement of the tournament onwards? And then, because he was regarded to be the strongest chessplayer in the Soviet Union or for other, less chess-related reasons?

This may not be that important a point, but I just wondered if this may not be a question the reader could very well ask him-/herself after reading the Intro.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <8) The part about the collusion charges is interesting, but a possible question that may arise in the reader is: Why Botvinnik? He was not the only Soviet playing there, so why should the Soviet Union not simply want one of the Soviets to win, but specifically Botvinnik? Because he started out well and so they wanted to preserve his lead, or are they suspected to have planned for Botvinnik to become the new WC before?>

arghh that's not so clear cut as I said a minute ago-

<Botvinnik> had supporters who wanted him to win but <Keres> also had a "white knight" or two. Both had some "friends in high places."

This was also the case in <Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951>- each master had support from powerful political friends.

I will have to investigate more carefully and try to say this in as few words as possible. Might take a bit of time to do that.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Karpova> jinx-

Yes all of your additional questions deserve treatment. The quick answer is that there is no quick answer.

One of the problems is that in "Achieving the Aim" you only get <Botvinnik's> account, and typically for <Keres>, the book he wrote about the tournament is concerned only with chess.

As I'm sure you already know, <Keres> didn't like speaking or writing publicly about personal or political affairs.

I'll try to find a way to make it as clear as I can for the reader.

I think this issue needs to be addressed, since it's a longstanding controversy that likely will never be fully resolved. Obviously I'm not trying to resolve it- that's not my job here. I just want to report as many facts I can in as neutral a way as I can in as few additional words as I can.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I am still not a big fan of the dating convention dd/mm/yyyy. I have always thought that was a strange convention. I mean, when you start with the month, at that point you've helped the reader on a bit in getting a grasp of the timeframe. When you start with the date, you've done absoultely nothing to inform the reader of the timeframe until you follow it up with the month. Why not start with the month and get the informing over with? The day then month convention strikes me as giving a sum of money by mentioning the cents first. "Yes, on 10 January, I cashed a check for 45 cents and 80 dollars." I truly can't believe the convention is used. Perhaps other people can't believe I have a problem with it.
Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <They planned a quadruple round robin tournament featuring the day's top contenders, >

"the day's top contenders" is a bit colloquial, but I don't have a good alternative. Thinking about it.

<including Max Euwe, Samuel Reshevsky, Reuben Fine, Mikhail Botvinnik, Paul Keres, Vasily Smyslov,>

Any shred of detail explaining thy those 6 were selected would be better than nothing.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Ohio> I'm of three minds on this myself. I used to prefer the month first but then when I was spending a great deal of time with <Skinner and Verhoeven's> gigantic Alekhine book I realized that when I was looking up a large number of dates, it was easier to read their supersonic

<2 Aug 1944> and such.

No period either.

<crawfb5> suggests this model as well.

Oh maybe they changed the convention to arrange the units in sequence? From shortest to longest.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Ohio> I look forward to an alternative to "the day's top contenders"-

I'll take a long look at adding a bit to explain why those players were chosen- the short answer is the Americans and Soviets had the strongest results at this time, so the top Yanks vs. the top Commies, with Euwe the last champion standing thrown in as a kind of honorarium.

Good heavens that's colloquial and long of course.

I almost cut off my fingers getting this draft down to 675 words.

If you can save me any millimetres of space with style edits I could add missing content.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: The reason "The day's best" is useful is that it's hard to reference a past time in a current sense. You're stuck with something like "At that time, the leading players....." or some other dreadful construction. I'll try to find some not too colloquial and not too dreadful compromise.
Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Maybe you can just dele "day's". And I don't think "including" is necessary. I tweaked the last clause a little, so perhaps we can save 3 words with:

<They planned a quadruple round robin tournament featuring the top contenders-Max Euwe, Samuel Reshevsky, Reuben Fine, Mikhail Botvinnik, Paul Keres, Vasily Smyslov, and the winner of either the upcoming Groningen or Prague tournaments.>

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Maybe these tweaks: "tournament" is a bit redundant. "featuring" is a long word when "of" will suffice.

So then "They planned a quadruple round robin of the top contenders"

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Ohio> I appreciate your effort on this point and I've been thinking about how to link your two related ideas-

less colloquial and more informative.

Something roughly like-

"proposed a round robin tournament with the the top US and Soviet players and Max Euwe, the last master to hold the title..."

But some construction that also explains that the top 5 in the world happened to be roughly the 2 yanks and 3 Soviets- it wasn't picking the two countries out, it was just a fact that they had the strongest chess players at that time. Based on results.

The Americans had won the last 4 Olympiads and <Fine> and <Reshevsky> were much the strongest of that team.

Similarly, on results domestic and international, <Botvinnik> and <Keres> were a cut above.

Interestingly, it was <Smyslov> who some thought of as the "weakest link" in that group- most expected <Euwe> to give a good account of himself.

But <Smyslov> didn't too too badly in the end.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <According to a "Chess" (Dec 1946) article, Botvinnik announced to the others that he would not play in the Netherlands. >

I think you can dele "to the others" without losing any meaning.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Ohio>

I like this a fair bit- I'll use this unless you come up with something even better. Maybe a sentence to follow about their credentials and why they were chosen.

<"They planned a quadruple round robin of the top contenders-Max Euwe, Samuel Reshevsky, Reuben Fine, Mikhail Botvinnik, Paul Keres, Vasily Smyslov, and the winner of either the upcoming Groningen or Prague tournaments.">

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <<According to a "Chess" (Dec 1946) article, Botvinnik announced to the others that he would not play in the Netherlands. > I think you can dele "to the others" without losing any meaning.>

Glad to hear you say that- I will do so.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Sorry to post like this, but I have one eye on the clock as I get ready for work. Trying to save a few words:

<all parties agreed to the same player lineup and conditions proposed at Winterhur 1946, except now the tournament would be split between The Hague and Moscow and begin in spring 1948.<6> In addition, no extra player would be added. In 1946 Botvinnik had won at Groningen and Miguel Najdorf at Prague, but because of the new agreement, Najdorf was not invited to join the championship.>

all parties agreed to most of the conditions proposed at Winterhur 1946, except now the tournament would be split between The Hague and Moscow and begin in spring 1948.<6> In addition, no extra player would be added. Although Miguel Najdorf won at Prague, because of the new agreement, he wasn't invited to join the championship.

<The players were quartered at the Kurhaus in Scheviningen, except for Botvinnik>

All players except Botvinnik were...
And "quartered" is pretty stuffy.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: The place which is spelt in the attribution as 'Winterhur' is actually Winterthur, Switzerland.
Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: One more note: the Dutch seaside town is spelt Scheveningen.
Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>

I tried this here instead of DRAWN AND QUARTERED-

<All players except Botvinnik lodged at the Kurhaus in Scheveningen.>

Or should it be

<All players except Botvinnik were lodged at the Kurhaus in Scheveningen.>

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Perfidious>

Thank you sir!

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio> Beautiful- shaved down to 663 words and reading more "smoo" as well, thanks to you.

All your suggestions are now enacted-

Game Collection: WCC: FIDE WCC Tournament 1948

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <Ohio> aha missed one- now all your edits are in and at 653 words with no loss of "content," we have around 25 words leeway to add more real content.

Excellent work.

Jan-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Botvinnik reportedly announced to the others that he would not play in the Netherlands. He was angry about a Dutch news report that suggested his fellow Russians might collude to help him win the title.>

Still wouldn't mind a dele of "to the others".

<Although Miguel Najdorf won at Prague, because of the new agreement, he wasn't invited to join the championship.>

I slightly prefer "Although Miguel Najdorf won at Prague, he wasn't invited to join the championship because of the new agreement."

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