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Apr-05-14
 | | OhioChessFan: First try. Not sure this works, but something similar is necessary: <David Bronstein burst onto the international chess scene when he won the Saltsjöbaden Interzonal (1948). He quickly rose to the rank of potential world championship contender. > I'm not sure "rank" is right, I understand it's a colloquial usage, but I wish there was something better. |
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Apr-05-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <Shortly before the match, Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> This could use a bit of segue, something like:
<Similarly, shortly before the match, Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> <Bronstein's final preparations were similar, as he played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres shortly before the match.> <Bronstein <kicked off the match> > Still a bit colloquial for my tastes. How about simply "started" instead of "kicked off"? <After the match Botvinnik was complimentary to his opponent, > I still want a comma after "match". Forgive me, have we beat that one around? |
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Apr-05-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <He quickly rose to the rank of potential world championship contender. > How about the small tweak
<He quickly rose in the ranks of potential world championship contenders. > |
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Apr-05-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio>
The first two lines aren't part of the written paragraph. It's just a basic information marker for when I do re-write the beginning. That's why it says (Basic Information)
at the top of it:
<David Bronstein won the Saltsjöbaden Interzonal (1948). He rose to the rank of potential world championship contender. > That said, I very much appreciate your work on this. I put one of your sentences up there as a reminder. <He quickly rose in the ranks of potential world championship contenders.> sounds good to me. ####################
<Similarly, shortly before the match, Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> I like this- I'm putting it in for now, thank you. But without the second comma. At least until I can get <Tim's> second opinion on the second comma. If you can come up with something even better that would be great. ##################
<<After the match Botvinnik was complimentary to his opponent, >I still want a comma after "match". Forgive me, have we beat that one around?> I can't remember either lol.
Let's wait to see what <Tim> has to say about this <comma request> before making a decision. I'm still wondering why <Daniel> hasn't processed our <1948> draft yet, so there's certainly no rush on the <Bronstein draft>. It's good you are taking advantage of the extra time by working on it, thank you. #################
"kicked off the match" stays.
It's colloquial but maybe I heard <kingscrusher> say it so many times that it seems to me the "right thing to say" in the chess world. |
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Apr-05-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Ohio, Colleagues>
Oh I should clarify this- I promised <Daniel> that when he processes the next draft, I'd wait four days while we checked for errata. He wanted me to send just one email of errata, instead of three or four emails as we find each error. So I'm not submitting the <Bronstein> draft until at least 4 days after the <1948> draft is processed. It's not up yet, so I won't be submitting the <Bronstein> draft for at least 5 more days. |
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| Apr-05-14 | | dakgootje: <So I'm not submitting the <Bronstein> draft until at least 4 days after the <1948> draft is processed. It's not up yet>
For some reason, the results of chessbookie is taking absolutely ages as well [think 5 days by now]. Which is of course a completely different area - but perhaps Something is Going On which causes a delay in all other activities. |
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Apr-05-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <WaffleConeConnoisseur: "kicked off the match" stays. It's colloquial but maybe I heard <kingscrusher> say it so many times that it seems to me the "right thing to say" in the chess world.> I think it sounds better than it reads. So I'd go with say it, don't display it. |
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| Apr-05-14 | | Boomie: ->
Comma Sutra Positions
<Similarly, shortly before the match, Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> Both commas are needed. However I wonder if the segue could be achieved more simply by just using "also". "Bronstein also played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres." <After the match Botvinnik was complimentary to his opponent, > Indeed, a comma is needed after "match". |
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Apr-05-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <Kaboomie: Both commas are needed. However I wonder if the segue could be achieved more simply by just using "also".> No.
<"Bronstein also played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres."> That would only work if we'd named previous training opponents of Bronstein. I think "also" could work but it'd need a word or two of segue...maybe a hyphen to show just a hint of segue...maybe "likewise" is a possiblity.........thinking..... <Bronstein likewise played training games before the match-against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> |
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Apr-05-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 <Tim> Thank you, and it appears <Ohio> wants to work further on the <Similarly, shortly before the match, Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> sentence I put in. All power to him.
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<<After the match Botvinnik was complimentary to his opponent, >Indeed, a comma is needed after "match".> > Ok did that.
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<OhioKickedOffNotAFan> Ok you've convinced me. Alternatives to
<Bronstein <<<kicked off the match>>> with the Dutch Defence, an opening Botvinnik had not prepared in his notebook, likely because he considered himself an expert in both sides of the Dutch.> What about just-
<Bronstein opened the match with the...>? I'll put that in for now:
Bronstein <opened the match>-<insert game link here> Botvinnik vs Bronstein, 1951 with the Dutch Defence, an opening Botvinnik had not prepared in his notebook, likely because he considered himself an expert in both sides of the Dutch. QUESTION: For the "blue link," do we want <opened the match> all in blue, or just <opened>, or just <match>? |
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| Apr-05-14 | | Boomie: <OhioTickedOffAboutKickedOffFan: Bronstein likewise played training games before the match against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> "before the match" seems unnecessary. And putting the segue word first makes for a smoother transition, non? <Likewise Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> |
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| Apr-05-14 | | Boomie: <Wondrously Charismatic and Cute> <Bronstein <opened the match>-<insert game link here> Botvinnik vs Bronstein, 1951 with the Dutch Defence, an opening Botvinnik had not prepared in his notebook, likely because he considered himself an expert in both sides of the Dutch.> Perhaps this would be smoother with the patented Boomie sentencizer. Why use one sentence when two will do? Also I've taken liberties, like I always do.
Note that we spell Defense with an "s", not that sissy "c" favored by limp wristed foreign agitators. "Bronstein surprised Botvinnik in the <first game of the match>-<insert game link here> Botvinnik vs Bronstein, 1951 with the Dutch Defense. Botvinnik had not prepared for this opening, likely because he considered himself an expert in both sides of the Dutch." |
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Apr-05-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Clams>
I don't likewise likewise eh? Please try for a construction that doesn't require likewise? I will also think on it. |
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Apr-06-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
<"Evergreen" brand Tampon> Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 <"Bronstein surprised Botvinnik in the <first game of the match>-<insert game link here> Botvinnik vs Bronstein, 1951 with the Dutch Defense. Botvinnik had not prepared for this opening, likely because he considered himself an expert in both sides of the Dutch."> I like that much better, so I put it in now. Thank you sir! |
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Apr-06-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: Crikey sorry <Tim> I meant to type "Timpon." I hope this one slides past the censors and other malcontents. |
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Apr-06-14
 | | WCC Editing Project:
<Tortellini>
We're going with "defence" throughout.
My Mom has a photo of the Queen on her bedroom wall. Well she might do, I'm not allowed in there because that's where she hides the ice cream in a small freezer whenever I visit. Anyhoo, we'll go British on this one, because it's still the most prevalent spelling in "chess circles." |
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| Apr-06-14 | | Boomie: <WCC: I like that much better...> You're just saying that because I called you cute...admit it. We can't get likewise in edgewise. Perhaps we should settle for the "also" ran solution. Maybe we can meet Ohio's objection by putting "also" first. Or just forget the segue and drop the "also", "likewise", and their ilk. "Also Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres." |
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| Apr-06-14 | | Boomie: <Wicked Carrot Cake: We're going with "defence" throughout.> OK. But notice that CG uses the American, which is to say correct, spelling. I don't want to be around when Daniel blows a top over this. |
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| Apr-06-14 | | Boomie: <WCC: Crikey sorry <Tim> I meant to type "Timpon."> Well, at least I was scented. |
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Apr-06-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <TaK!>
CG uses the American "defense"?
Hang on, let me check.
French Defense (C00)
Ten thousand blistering barnacles, you're right.
Ok we'll follow the headmaster in this matter then. |
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Apr-06-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <"Also Bronstein played training games against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres."> No. "Also" is about as good a word to start a sentence as "However". In any event, the sentence needs some segue. One more idea: "Following Botvinnik's example, Bronstein played training games..." |
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Apr-06-14
 | | OhioChessFan: Fine decision on the "defense" decision.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YiP... |
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Apr-06-14
 | | OhioChessFan: When did Bronstein play his training games? If they were shortly before the match, maybe "Botvinnik finalized his preparation just days before the match with two secret training games against Viacheslav Ragozin. Bronstein also played two training games, against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres." |
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Apr-06-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <TimHio>
Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 Very good team you two make- I believe this trademark collaboration is a winner: <Bronstein also played <<<two>>> training games, against Semyon Abramovich Furman and Paul Keres.> Now that part of the passage, below the
#########################
thingy is looking good to me.
I still need to look at the exact time frame of the sources and carefully re-read <Karpova's> post about the area still above the ##################
thingy.
Please don't work on editing that part just yet, because I need to re-write it from source again. I don't know how much yet, but please be patient. As much as I love this construction- <Bronstein surprised Botvinnik in the first game of the match....>, I don't think we should use it, because it presupposes conditions not in evidence. I had a smilar discussion on a closely related topic a while ago with <thomastonk>. We can't state that Botvinnik was "surprised" unless there's a source where he tells us he was "surprised" by Bronstein's opening in the first game. I believe we'll have to go back to something like this, which I've just put in: <Bronstein began the <first game of the match>-<insert game link here> Botvinnik vs Bronstein, 1951 with the Dutch Defense. Botvinnik had not prepared for this system, likely because he considered himself an expert in both sides of the Dutch.> Any other tries that don't use "kicked off" or "surprised" are welcome. We do have some extra time, which is a little fortunate for me, since my Korean masters seem to have decided to work me to death just two months before contract renewal time. This is a national tradition. Once they renew my contract, I can go back to skiving for a while. With respect to cg.com, as <Dakar Rally> pointed out, there seems to be "something going on." I'm sure our redoubtable webmaster will fix whatever needs to be fixed, and soon we'll all return to scheduled programming. |
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Apr-06-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <OhioCorrectTimeFrame> <Bronstein> says the training game against <Keres> was "played one day before the match." (meaning this match- Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951) He lists the training game against <Furman> as being played just prior to the <Keres> game, but he doesn't give the exact date. ########################
<Botvinnik> played his last two training games against <Ragozin> on March 7 and March 8. The championship match began on March 16. |
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Later Kibitzing> |