|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 88 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Mar-31-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: Not so!
This Draft won't be sent before it's time, I can tell you. Almost a week left to work on it. I have to re-write two of the sentences in the first paragraph for one- I think I may have time to do that tomorrow with any luck. |
|
Mar-31-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <This Draft won't be sent before it's time> I'd prefer "its". |
|
| Mar-31-14 | | Karpova: <Jess>
Was Game Collection: WCC: FIDE WCC Tournament 1948 already sent away? It still doesn't show up in the history page. |
|
Mar-31-14
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <I'd prefer "its".> Heh... I salute your vigilance.
<Karpova>
Game Collection: WCC: FIDE WCC Tournament 1948 Yes it was sent to <crawfb5>- he had a few questions about a note or two, so I had to think about the answers and then email him back a couple of times. I haven't heard back from him for a few days now, so I assume that
now he has either submitted the draft, or that he will do so very shortly. Remember, at <Daniel's> request, let's take a good look at the Draft when it's promoted so that we can gather errata and then I can send it to him all in a single email, instead of piece by piece. I will look for errata, and collect errata found by our colleagues, for four (4) days before sending in the errata list to <Daniel>. Maybe there won't be any errata this time. But we do need to check. |
|
| Mar-31-14 | | crawfb5: I sent it in very early this morning. I usually get an acknowledgement from Daniel pointing out any minor issues he finds. I have not gotten one yet, some 12 hours later, so I assume he has not gone through it yet. |
|
| Mar-31-14 | | Travis Bickle: Jess, do not pass Go do not collect 2 hundred dollars!! Go to your forum... ; P |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | dakgootje: Write, let's read.
Are the parts in <<red double bracketthings>> still bound to be re-written? Regarding the very first sentence "David Bronstein had <beaten>-<insert game link here> Bronstein vs Botvinnik, 1944 Mikhail Botvinnik as early as the USSR Championship (1944)" The current structure is <"PlayerA beat <evidence-game> PlayerB as early as <Occasion>, but bladibla">. Given that we refer to time [as early as], wouldn't it be preferable to rewrite the sentence to <"PlayerA beat PlayerB as early as <Year> (<evidence-game>), but bladibla">? Apart from a slightly different structure, you'd lose the tournament in favor of the shorter year-number. Suppose that's not too terrible, given that the tournament is found by clicking on the game. If, instead, the tournament itself (rather than the year) is deemed important it might be mentioned separately. <Two years later he edged Isaac Boleslavsky in a playoff match in the Budapest Candidates (1950) to earn the right to challenge Botvinnik for the title.> I always garble up my tenses and actually grammar in general - so I just go with gut feeling. In that respect, the 'to earn' feels a bit off. What about simply 'earning', perhaps with a comma in front? And I don't fully understand the 'in a playoff match in the Candidates' yet. Was it played during the candidates? Perhaps something like 'in a playoff match after a tie [for first] in the Candidates'. But the sentence would become quite long.. <Shortly before the match, Bronstein also played a training game against Semyon Abramovich Furman, and another against Paul Keres.<5>> Minor point. The 'also' deals with playing training games in general, not against Furman. So instead I'd opt for "Bronstein played training games shortly before the match as well, one against Furman and another against Keres". Or something like that. SECOND PARAGRAPH
<Match conditions had been decided at the Paris 1949 FIDE congress.> Decided? Decided on? Decided upon? <If the champion lost, he had the right to> I'd like a 'then' before 'he'. Thought about 'would have' instead of 'had' - but perhaps it's not necessary. <The seconds were Ragozin and Salomon Flohr (Botvinnik) and Alexander Konstantinopolsky (Bronstein).> We could probably break away those brackets via The seconds were Ragozin and Salomon Flohr for Botvinnik, and Alexander Konstantinopolsky for Bronstein. THIRD PARAGRAPH
Ah yes, previously I found the first sentence unclear - but it's fine in the context of the full text. Twice in the first few sentences, the Dutch Defence is called 'the Dutch' however. Seems a bit colloquial. <a ploy he dismissed as "naive."> Minor point, but do we still need quotation marks for naive? Given that we say he dismissed them as something, isn't it already clear we quote him? <and needed only to win once more> Think I'd like 'only' on a different spot. And only needed to win once more <or possibly> and needed to win only once more. -- No further additions to the fourth and fifth paragraph your honor. |
|
Apr-03-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <dakson5: <Two years later he edged Isaac Boleslavsky in a playoff match in the Budapest Candidates (1950) to earn the right to challenge Botvinnik for the title.> I always garble up my tenses and actually grammar in general - so I just go with gut feeling. In that respect, the 'to earn' feels a bit off. What about simply 'earning', > Agree strongly with earning. |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | Karpova: <dakgootje: <a ploy he dismissed as "naive."> Minor point, but do we still need quotation marks for naive? Given that we say he dismissed them as something, isn't it already clear we quote him?> They are needed, or else it would not be clear that Botvinnik is being quoted verbatim. It could be imagined, that Botvinnik chose a longer way to describe it, which <Jess> then summarized by using <naive>. But this way it becomes clear that Botvinnik used the expression himself. ---
For Game Collection: WCC: Karpov-Kasparov 1984-85 http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | dakgootje: Ah yes, just read it again - you're correct.
Initially I thought the quoting was more inherent in the words than it actually is. |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | Boomie: <The seconds were Ragozin and Salomon Flohr (Botvinnik) and Alexander Konstantinopolsky (Bronstein).> The seconds should all have first names or not. Also there is no need for parentheses around the players' names. "The seconds were Ragozin and Flohr for Botvinnik and Konstantinopolsky for Bronstein." |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | Boomie: <Shortly before the match, Bronstein also played a training game against Semyon Abramovich Furman, and another against Paul Keres.> Is there any need for Furman's middle name? I would shorten this with "Bronstein played training games against Semyon Furman and Paul Keres". Also the comma after Furman is unnecessary. "Shortly before the match, Bronstein played training games against Semyon Furman and Paul Keres." |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | Boomie: <David Bronstein had <beaten>-<insert game link here> Bronstein vs Botvinnik, 1944 Mikhail Botvinnik as early as the USSR Championship (1944)> I would prefer beginning with the candidates tourney than with this minor point. This game can be mentioned after it is established that Bronstein is the challenger. I would rewrite the line about the Candidates and insert a link to the playoff. We should consider writing an introduction to the playoff game collection. <Two years later he edged Isaac Boleslavsky in a playoff match in the Budapest Candidates (1950) to earn the right to challenge Botvinnik for the title.> "Bronstein and Isaac Boleslavsky tied for first at the Budapest Candidates (1950). Bronstein won the playoff match Game Collection: WCC Index (Bronstein-Boleslavsky 1950) to earn the right to play Botvinnik for the World Championship.> |
|
Apr-03-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Lobsters>
Well I won't be submitting Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 on Sunday, since <Daniel> has yet to acknowledge that he received our earlier draft yet- Game Collection: WCC: FIDE WCC Tournament 1948. I'm not submitting our current draft under inspection until after <Daniel> promotes the previous draft, and until we've had four days after that to hunt for possible errata. Maybe we're all fired!
If so, I counsel organizing a group vacation- possibly to <Ohio's> house. Good work on the current edits- I've broken down the first paragraph with some explanatory notes. I'll have time to finish a better version of that paragraph this weekend. I do, HOWEVER, want to keep the two "keeper" sentences in it from <Tim>. ######################
I also changed this later sentence to a <Tim> version, with slight alterations: <The seconds were Viacheslav Ragozin and Salomon Flohr for Botvinnik, and Alexander Konstantinopolsky for Bronstein.<10>.> <Tim> We use the "blue link names" once, and then a "black typed version" of each blue name for all subsequent appearances. We can't do anything about the "middle names" in the blue links. Well I suppose you could dash off an angry letter to your Minister or something. Anyways thanks for the recent edit ideas- good ideas, I might add. |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | Boomie: <Ayatollah of Jelly Rollah: We can't do anything about the "middle names" in the blue links.> We can make a link out of any text, non? If so, we can use the short name and set it's link to the long name. Or I've misunderstood the whole thing in which case, never mind then. |
|
| Apr-03-14 | | crawfb5: <We can make a link out of any text, non? If so, we can use the short name and set it's link to the long name.> Exactly. To set up an HTML version of a link for Odd Lie, it would be something close to this: <start link signal="/perl/chessplayer?pid=33393">make any silly description here<stop link signal> where the blue link would show <make any silly description here> but actually link to the Odd Lie player page. Of course that only works within an HTML module, not from a regular post. The kibitz editor gives an error message if you try to use HTML in a post, telling you to use a URL. I had to substitute <start/stop link signal> for the real code to get it past the editor. It's a bit like language use, though. You <can> call a dog a fish, but people are probably going to misunderstand you. We could use any version of a player's name, even the last name only or initials with last name or any other version, but I'd probably err on the side of caution in terms of varying from the version used on the player page. YMMV. |
|
| Apr-04-14 | | Boomie: Thanks Notorious B. I. G. |
|
Apr-04-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: Interesting.
All the same, I will continue to use the CG.com "blue spellings" of player names for any Drafts I submit in this project. |
|
| Apr-04-14 | | Karpova: I also think that it is advisable to use the chessgames.com spelling of names for the blue links (i. e. the first time a name is mentioned), even if it may clash a bit stylistically with other parts. The convenience for the reader is worth it, in my opinion. Else it would be confusing to have a link leading to a player with a different name, and it is also good to know the database name for a player. E. g., imagine you have a player with an umlaut (like Sämisch) - it would be good to spell his name correctly, but it would be convenient for the reader to see the actual name in the database for this player also. This could come in handy in case of future searches, so that he knows he may have to look for Saemisch. The convention with the database name as a blue link to the player profile first, and then the more correct name in black later on, has been used before and should not overburden the audience. |
|
| Apr-04-14 | | Boomie: <Women's Constabulary of Crones> What are we going to do about the Kronkstein-Coleslawsky match? Should we give the link to the game collection? It doesn't have an introduction but maybe that's better than nothing, nu? |
|
| Apr-04-14 | | Karpova: On Game Collection: WCC: Botvinnik-Bronstein 1951 For all people with a chessgames.com page, the convention is first the complete chessgames.com name in blue, i. e. the link to his profile, then solely his surname in black (possibly with umlauts or accents or something else). But now, an exception is made for seconds - in this very case it's Ragozin - why? "The seconds were Viacheslav Ragozin and Salomon Flohr for Botvinnik, and Alexander Konstantinopolsky for Bronstein.<10>" As Ragozin was already mentioned, "The seconds were Ragozin and Salomon Flohr for Botvinnik, and Alexander Konstantinopolsky for Bronstein.<10>" looks fine. The names of the other seconds are only given in full, because there they are being mentioned for the first time. To change the convention for seconds appears strange and is rather confusing. I'm sure that the reader will understand the difference between the surnames in black and the full names in blue. |
|
| Apr-04-14 | | Karpova: Giving links to game collections doesn't appear advisable as they are not permanent and could be deleted by their creator. As long as Bronstein-Boleslavsky has not been submitted and voted in, I would be reluctant to use it. An alternative would be to make your own game collectionand link to it, as you would have control over it. |
|
| Apr-04-14 | | Boomie: <Karpova> Thanks. Sounds reasonable. I didn't know that folks can remove their collections. |
|
Apr-04-14
 | | WCC Editing Project: <Karpova>
<Giving links to game collections doesn't appear advisable> Good thinking.
Not using an unpromoted event as a link would seem safest to me. Even if I mirrored a linked collection, the <WCCEP> account might "blow up" or get fired at some point. Better to use only "permanent and persistent" Cg.com links that are forever directly, and solely, in <Daniel's> control. |
|
Apr-05-14
 | | OhioChessFan: <David Bronstein won the Saltsjöbaden Interzonal (1948). He rose to the rank of potential world championship contender. > This is not nearly a snappy enough first two sentences. Working on it, quickly. |
|
 |
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 88 OF 127 ·
Later Kibitzing> |