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   Feb-15-21 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
chessgames.com: Dear Chessgames.com members: We've recently become aware of a technical difficulty with the "engine" server, which is used for game/move analysis. It appears that a hardware failure may be responsible for making the analysis engine unavailable. We're actively ...
 
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chessgames.com: Dear chessgames members: Santa Claus <finally> got around to sending us his list of lucky winners for this year's "Dear Santa" contest! We thank Santa for his diligence, and have learned that his tardiness in providing his list was <unavoidable> due to ...
 
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chessgames.com: <♕♔♕ Bettors and Worse ♕♔♕> As we start this year's ChessBookie cycle with the Summer Leg, I would first like to thank our fearless new Bookie <jingohanson>, who made it possible to continue the game. Next, I hereby announce in ...
 
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chessgames.com: Games have now been added for the Prague Chess Festival Masters and Challengers sections, and we'll include the Open section results as they become available. For news & details, see the official site at http://praguechessfestival.com/
 
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chessgames.com: Games have now been added for the Prague Chess Festival Masters and Challengers sections, and we'll include the Open section results as they become available. For news & details, see the official site at http://praguechessfestival.com/
 
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chessgames.com: Games have now been added for Rounds 1-3 of both the Open and Women's sections of the 2019 FIDE World Team Chess Championship. For news & details, see the official site at http://wteams.astana2019.fide.com/e...
 
   Mar-08-19 World Team Chess Championship (2019) (replies)
 
chessgames.com: Games have now been added for Rounds 1-3 of both the Open and Women's sections of the 2019 FIDE World Team Chess Championship. For news & details, see the official site at http://wteams.astana2019.fide.com/e...
 
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ARCHIVED POSTS
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 824 OF 1118 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: About making all of the Site tags of tournaments identical, there are a few things to take into consideration.

First let's consult the PGN specs to see if it offers any guidance:

<8.1.1.2: The Site tag

The Site tag value should include city and region names along with a standard name for the country. The use of the IOC (International Olympic Committee) three letter names is suggested for those countries where such codes are available. If the site of the event is unknown, a single question mark should appear as the tag value. A comma may be used to separate a city from a region. No comma is needed to separate a city or region from the IOC country code. A later section of this document gives a list of three letter nation codes along with a few additions for "locations" not covered by the IOC.

Examples:

[Site "New York City, NY USA"]

[Site "St. Petersburg RUS"]

[Site "Riga LAT"]>

(http://www.opensource.apple.com/sou...)

That doesn't really help. It discusses "the site of an event" as if to imply that for every event, there is one (and only one) site. Multiple sites for the same event is not discussed. I don't believe that's because the author wanted databases to create a one-to-one correspondence between the Event and the Site, I think it's because he honestly didn't consider this nuance very deeply.

Another thing to consider is how this change will interface with existing PGN software. I think this might the strong point of the suggestion. I can imagine some software getting confused when you have identical Site tags and multiple locations. After all, if the Event said only "It" (international) and the Site tags were different, you would naturally assume they were from different events. And so the same software would not see "Bundesliga Hambug" the same as "Bundesliga Munich", even though they really are the same event.

Another consideration is, what is the norm? What does Chessbase do? What does NIC do? I'm not against doing things different from everybody else, but we should have a good reason for it.

Finally, what do we really want? What is better? Let's take a look at a typical multi-site event like Bundesliga (2013/14) and pluck two headers at random:

<
[Event "Bundesliga"]
[Site "Munich GER"]
[Date "2013.10.13"]
>

and

<
[Event "Bundesliga"]
[Site "Hamburg GER"]
[Date "2014.02.22"]
>

Zanzibar's suggestion would be to change this to read

<
[Event "Bundesliga"]
[Site "Various GER"]
[Date "2013.10.13"]

. . .

[GameSite "Munich GER"]

>

and

<
[Event "Bundesliga"]
[Site "Various GER"]
[Date "2014.02.22"]

. . .

[GameSite "Hamburg GER"]
>

I'm agnostic that the second form is better. For starters we have the problem that this "GameSite" tag is not an official tag, and no PGN reader on earth will do anything with it. If you load such PGN into software like Chessbase it will read "Various GER" and not "Hamburg GER". Importing and exporting PGN often strips nonstandard tags, so there is a danger of data-loss. What exactly is the advantage, and is it a big enough advantage to warrant this?

May-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: While we're discussing the PGN spec (http://www.opensource.apple.com/sou...) let's take a look at the less-technical portion of the Character codes section:

<4.1: Character codes

Because some PGN users' environments may not support presentation of non-ASCII characters, PGN game authors should refrain from using such characters in critical commentary or string values in game data that may be referenced in such environments. PGN software authors should have their programs handle such environments by displaying a question mark ("?") for non-ASCII character codes. This is an important point because there are many computing systems that can display eight bit character data, but the display graphics may differ among machines and operating systems from different manufacturers.>

The reason why this has come to my attention is that I've noticed some of the historical tournaments have used non-ASCII characters such as Grünfeld - Tartakower (1922).

The problem comes in that now we've created PGN that contains the ü character. There is no problem having the database contain a non-Western character, but now the tag [Event "Grünfeld - Tartakower"] will show up on some PGN readers as "Gr?nfeld - Tartakower."

I normally adhere to specs as closely as possible but the argument could be made that these specs are very old and perhaps outdated in this respect.

I'm not sure what the answer to this is but it's an issue that's come to the forefront recently with my examination of Event tags.

May-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <<chessgames> Do you know/use python much?>

I'm actually learning it lately but haven't used it for anything serious.

<Would you be interested in me making a blog post showing the code I used for this? ... >

Sure.

May-30-15  zanzibar: <chessgames> - When I first go into this business, not too long ago, I tried to start my own database with UTF-8 names in SCID.

It didn't work out, and I think PGN headers should be strictly ASCII, at least in the near future (say 5 years).

So, I think those tournaments in the index should be renamed. It was on my list, but you beat me to it.

Right now, I'm advocating for the player's page only.

And to keep to PGN standard as closely as possible.

This, however, is a clear example of where the standard will need to be extended.

* * * * *

And, OK then, I'll write up the renormalization algorithm. It's not very refined, but proved useful nonetheless.

May-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: I have about 60 submitted games in the pipeline; pull your finger out and do the bizzo! What are you people doing all day?
May-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: <MissScarlett> We debate PGN headers and whether it's Yue Wang or Wang Yue.

I got one in the submission queue, too. =))

May-30-15  zanzibar: Hey, me too!

Is there an easy way to check how many game submissions are pending/rejected?

(I don't think there is, but things change)

May-30-15  zanzibar: <RE: @linking>

<<chessgames> Something like that could be worked out, although I'm not sure how many people would use it. I know I would use it.>

I figured you'd be the best customer, but I'm right behind you in line. And there'd be others, no doubt, especially as time goes on.

May-30-15  Benzol: Maybe <CG> is saving the queue of games for the sandbox feature. I think I have something over 40 plus submissions still waiting to see the light of day.
May-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: Here's what I'm investigating right now: An anomaly discovered in the 56th US Open (1955).

This tournament contains 315 games and was inducted into the Tournament Index Sun Jan 19 2014.

Taking a header at random from the event gives us this:

<
[Event "56th US Open"]
[Site "Long Beach, CA"]
[Date "1955.08.11"]
[EventDate "?"]
>

Maybe not perfect—no event date, and "USA" should be part of the the Site tag—but that's how it was inducted and all of the games should conform to that standard.

However, they don't all conform. 16 of them mysteriously have headers that look like this:

<
[Event "US Open"]
[Site "Long Beach, CA"]
[Date "1955.08.15"]
[EventDate "?"]
>

It doesn't say <56th US Open> it says <US Open>. What happened to the <56th>?

All of the games without the <56th> were uploaded by Phoni Benoni back in 2011, and as such they have nearly consecutive GIDs:

1751663, 1751664, 1751666, 1751667, 1751668, 1751669, 1751671, 1751672, 1751673, 1751674, 1751675, 1751676, 1751677, 1751678, 1751679, 1751680.

So it would appear that gremlins snuck in during the night and stripped out <56th> from 16 consecutive games in the database, but left all the others alone. What makes these 16 games so special?

May-30-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: Another observation/revision: although I swear that I see these games in Phony's upload of 2011, the GIDs of these 16 games acts as a kind of loose timestamp. It places them as being uploaded AFTER March 2014, which is after the tournament was inducted. That's very confusing in itself.

Anyhow, now knowing they were uploaded after the tournament was inducted, that would certainly explain why they would not have normalized headers.

Then the new question becomes, why would they be added to the existing tournament? After all, the names aren't even the same, and even if they were the same, a special clause prevents new games from being auto-inserted into existing Tournament Index events.

To top it off, no admin has touched any of these 16 games in the past year.

May-30-15  zanzibar: <chessgames> now you're scaring me.

That's enough ghost stories for tonight!

May-30-15  Benzol: <That's enough ghost stories for tonight!>

Is this the chessgames forum or a story by M R James? You be the judge.

:)

May-31-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project: <chessgames.com>

Maybe you overlooked this post Biographer Bistro (kibitz #11028), since the Bistro has become rather fast-paced. An answer would be interesting to several people.

May-31-15  zanzibar: <WCC> good idea to repost.
May-31-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: WCC, thanks I did miss that.

I've seen this kind of thing once before. I fixed something like that that I noticed myself a few months ago and was awfully puzzled.

First, as already noted, RAW Chess Challenge (2010) was actually a one-game event and we even did a live broadcast.

But then I looked at Nordic Congress (1903), it is a relatively new tournament (i.e., added last year). The game was submitted in late 2013 by a respected member.

It was never nominated for a tournament and never inducted.

The problem revolves around a database variable reading "Y" when it should read "N". I changed the data so now it won't show up in the list.

The Amantea (1995) match fits the same profile, including when and who uploaded it. It was added to the database at roughly the same time. Again, I fixed it by turning a "Y" into an "N".

So it seems that the gremlins flip the "kibitzing" flag on two or three random games. Why, I cannot say.

Here's a possibility: we have a file called "tourneys.txt" which controls the tournaments visible on the homepage "New Games." If an admin makes the mistake of entering a wrong tournament number and then processes that file, it would create exactly the situation we see here, even if the error is later corrected.

It sounds a little farfetched but it's the only explanation that I can think of.

May-31-15  zanzibar: <So it seems that the gremlins flip the "kibitzing" flag on two or three random games. Why, I cannot say.>

I think you might look at the code that does the <GotD>, and have already comments on that.

May-31-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <It sounds a little farfetched but it's the only explanation that I can think of.>

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!

Check this out:

London Chess Classic (Group B) (2013)

took place around the same time as this tournament was created

Nordic Congress (1903)

82762 vs 82672. A very easy typo to make.

Jun-01-15  zanzibar: I have a slew of questions <chessgames>... but I see that we've appeared to have taken a Sherlockian literary turn of late.

Before we entirely leave the topic of ghosts - I'd like to recommend this version from Japan:

Kaidan (怪談) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaidan)

In particular, this version (in English) can be read entirely online:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/kwa...

And if you prefer the more visual - I heartily recommend this version:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058279/

Jun-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Oh dear, a World Championship finalist and frequent contributor to the site turns 50, and he isn't Player of the Day?
Jun-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: According to CG he is only 49 :)

<NIGEL SHORT
(born Jun-01-1965, 49 years old>

Jun-01-15  zanzibar: I'll bet he was in years gone by.
I have a friend who does websites. One feature of his site was a <Look at what was happening last year>.

For <GotD>, <PotD> a similar feature could be used to add a little more depth.

Jun-01-15  zanzibar: One last ghost story... the imdb link is for <Kwaidan (1964)>, and the tailer can be seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG5...

Jun-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <chessgames.com> Congratulations on reaching 750,000 games! Should we stop submitting them now?
Jun-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <OhioChessFan: Oh dear, a World Championship finalist and frequent contributor to the site turns 50, and he isn't Player of the Day?> I hate it when that happens. They are pre-selected by computer and I hadn't noticed he reached a milestone birthday.

<Stonehenge: According to CG he is only 49 :) <NIGEL SHORT (born Jun-01-1965, 49 years old>> The two hardest problems in computer science are cache invalidation, naming conventions, and off-by-one bugs.

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