|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 62 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-28-09 | | Jim Bartle: There's a column by Norman Chad at cnnsi.com, where he says just because he's a poker commentator on TV doesn't mean he's a good poker player: "Alas, I have no discernible ability at hold 'em -- if I were playing against nine Franciscan monks, I would be the underdog -- a somewhat unfortunate reality considering I am paid to analyze hold 'em on TV. "(By the way, this makes me the Matt Millen of poker.)" |
|
Jun-28-09
 | | Phony Benoni: Don't remind me. It just confirms the old saying:
<Those who can, do. Those who can't, become analysts. Those who can't analyze, become kibitzers at chessgames.com.> |
|
Jun-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: <Game of the Day>: June 29, 1962 http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... "The Walking Men, or, Revenge of the Hook". |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: Must have been 24,366 bored Dodger fans watching all those walks. I don't remember Moeller as a starter at all--guess I know why now. Of course had they won this game, they would have won the pennant. Interesting to see what a powerful lineup LA had that year, especially considering how weak they became from 64 to 66. (The bigger strike zone which came in in 63 had something to do with it, but couldn't have been the only change.) |
|
Jun-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: And here's yesterday's <Game of the Day>: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/... |
|
Jun-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: The big loss for the Dodgers of 1962 was, Tommy Davis, of course; it looked like he had the potential for a Hall-of-Fame career. Once he was gone it was obvious Frank Howard couldn't handle the offensive power alone, so they apparently decided to go all the way for pitching, speed and defense. Howard was traded for Claude Osteen, and Wes Parker brought in with Fairly moving to right field. They never did find a good solution for third base. They had Ken McMullen, but apparently he didn't fit the new mold and became part of the Howard/Osteen deal. Jim Gilliam was aging, and John Kennedy probably could have been replaced by Ethel Kennedy with equal offensive output. |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: Agree 100% about Tommy Davis. I saw his ankle injury on TV; it was terrible to watch. Even the Giants felt bad, and stood around him. Davis was on first and the next batter either bunted or hit a roller to first. The camera was focused on the play at first as Gaylord Perry took the throw. Then he began sprinting toward second (he could do that in 1965), and tagged out Davis lying on the ground just short of second. Perry fell down, immediately ran back to see if Davis was OK, and began gesturing desperately to the Dodger dugout to get the trainer out. What happened was that Davis started to slide, then decided to stay standing up, and caught his cleats in the ground, ripping up his ankle. He was never the same, a Hall of Fame career gone. I remember even Mays came in from center to see him off. So yes, the Dodgers went to Lou Johnson, Jim Lefebvre, and Wes Parker. Plus they had a rock-hard infield which Johnson, Wills, Gilliam, Willie Davis, etc. used to hit high choppers and use their speed to beat out. I hated them. (But not the pitchers, except for Drysdale and that cheating spitballer Phil Regan. No Giant would ever stoop to doctoring the ball.) |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | playground player: Tommy Davis is one of those players who seems to appreciate with time. He kept playing after he destroyed his ankle, and he still hit .300 wherever he went! Imagine what he might have done with two healthy ankles. The Dodgers (especially after TD's departure) were the team I loved to hate--but I have to admit Koufax was the best pitcher I have ever seen. If he'd pitched for the Giants instead, with their bats behind him, he would have won 300 games. Maybe 400. |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: Here's the game where Davis was injured:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... The play-by-play says Perry "jogged" over to tag him out, but that is simply wrong. He ran as fast as he could, and fell down bending over to make the tag. Then he ran back to see what had happened to Davis. Concerning Koufax, maybe if they hadn't made him pitch 11-inning spring training games to show his arm was back in shape, the arthritis wouldn't have gotten so bad so quickly. They did odd things back then. All Giants fans wanted to beat Koufax, but we liked and admired him. How could you not? |
|
Jun-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: <Jim Bartle: No Giant would ever stoop to doctoring the ball.> Wait a second--you mean to tell me Gaylord Perry was clean back in those days? I saw him pitch for the Mariners at Tiger Stadium back in 1983. He didn't do well; apparently, he had switched from Vaseline to Grecian Formula 16. He claimed to have learned the spitter from Bob Shaw, who had his bad days too: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: What? You are besmirching the reputations of Gaylord and Shaw? Next you'll be claiming the Giants made a marsh out of the first base area so Wills couldn't get a jump toward second. Sheesh. Looking for that Tommy Davis game I came upon this one, Marichal getting the win and Koufax taking the loss. Though not in the typical manner: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: Dodgers had a thirteen-game winning streak in the second half of September 1965, to erase the 4-game lead the Giants had built up with their own 14-game streak earlier. In the thirteen games the Dodgers threw seven shutouts, and gave up more than two runs only twice. That's pitching. |
|
Jun-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: Looks like the Giants peaked too sonn. Like letting Elway get the ball back with two minutes on the clock. I just a had a look at the Dodgers' 1965 pennant clincher: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... Three runs on two hits. They score one run on a walk, stolen base, error, and wild pitch. The big two-run rally is a walk, one explosive single, fielder's choice on a botched rundown, and two bases loaded walks. More than enough with Koufax pitching a four-hitter and striking out thirteen. |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: Did you notice that Marichal came in in the eighth to save that game? Wouldn't see that today. Koufax (!!) had two saves that year as well--on a team with Perranosky and Regan. Times changes. The rally you mention is totally typical of the Dodgers that year and in 66, just ekeing out a run here or there any way possible. As I said before, I've never seen a team with more infield hits. They even won a game with ONE hit, a pop-fly double by Lou Johnson, and that didn't even lead to a run. Their run came on a two-base error and a couple of outs moving up the runner. Of course it helped that Koufax threw a perfect game: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: My mistake on the Dodgers run: Johnson walked, sacrificed to second, throw goes into the outfield on attempted steal of third, Johnson scores. The Dodger offense, circa 1965. |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: In that Dodgers clincher, Tony Cloninger, already with 24 wins, is taken out in the fifth, having given up one run and with the bases loaded. On the other hand he had just walked in a run and had gone to a 3-0 count on Sandy Koufax, the worst hitter in history this side of Bob Buhl and Ron Herbel. |
|
Jun-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: Yes, I did notice Marichal's relief appearance. You might see that today in a pennant race or postseason game (didn't Randy Johnson do it once?), but not often in May. But then, this was Dodgers vs. Giants. Anything goes. |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: In the Cubs game posted above, the one with Bob Shaw getting shelled, the Cubs lineup started with Brock, Hubbs, Williams, Santo and Banks. That's three Hall of Famers, another who could be (Santo), plus Hubbs, an outstanding young player who died in a plane crash in 1964. |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | hangingenprise: <phony> speaking of great pitchers, one of the great performances in
world series history: mickey lolich
than there is jack morris and that wicked slider he threw. still a koufax fan and i bleed dodger blue although i don't really follow
them these days. |
|
Jun-29-09
| | Phony Benoni: Ah, Mickey Lolich. Underestimated, largely (and the word is used advisedly) because his bodily contours resemembled those of the Michelin Man. It will surprise nobody who saw him in action that he went into the donut business after his playing career. But the man had a rubber arm, and in the early 70s there were few better pitchers in baseball. His 1971 stats defy belief these days: 45 starts, 29 complete games, 376 innings, 308 strikeouts. His exploits in the 1968 Series are what he is primarily remembered for today, but his only other chance at postseason play in 1972 was nearly as heroic. In the first game of th League Championship Series, he held Oakland to one run over 10 innings. The Tigers scored in the top of the 11th, but Lolich couldn't hold and Oakland won after, of all things, a throwing error by Al Kaline. In game 4, he held Oakland to one run over nine innings before coming out for a pinch hitter, the Tigers mounting a big comeback to win in the bottom of the 10th. After 1972, his numbers began to fall off due to wear and tear and an increasily bad Tigers team. Not Hall of Fame caliber, but certainly in the next tier. |
|
| Jun-29-09 | | Jim Bartle: Anybody remember reliever Terry Forster? Letterman began to make fun of him for being so fat. Then Forster came on the show, and kept pulling a sandwich out of one coat pocket, then a Snickers out of another. Great stuff. David Wells is sort of the latter-day Lolich. Out of shape, left-handed, with a rubber arm and great stuff. |
|
| Jun-30-09 | | Jim Bartle: Here's a game I read about at cnnsi.com, Detroit vs. Cleveland in 1958. Another game where something happened for the only time in history: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... |
|
Jun-30-09
| | Phony Benoni: Exciting game! Now we know why Charlie Lau became a htting instructor. Here's my <Game of the Day>: June 30, 1978: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... McCovey hits #500, Gene Garber audtions to be a closer for the Tigers, and the Giants wish they had signed Billie Jean King for their bullpen. |
|
| Jun-30-09 | | Jim Bartle: So you noticed the two steals of home by Vic Power?
Actually, I consider a steal of home to be the responsibility of the pitcher alone. How a team could allow a guy to do it twice in one game I can't figure. I saw one on TV this year, one of the Red Sox stealing off lefty Andy Pettite. Really exciting. I do not know the rule, or I'm not sure. Even with the runner coming, it's still a pitch, right? And the batter has the right to stand in and swing or not. I can't believe he has to get out of the way, since it's the same as a suicide squeeze. |
|
| Jun-30-09 | | Jim Bartle: Actually Moffitt was a pretty good pitcher; I think he was sort of the #2 closer. Willie McCovey is by far the most beloved of all San Francisco Giants. Even more than Mays, because McCovey came up while is SF. Mays came over from NY. Fans came to love Mays in a couple of years, but the hype had been so great that if he didn't get two hits, including a homer, every game, they thought he wasn't playing as well as in NY. I watched McCovey hit maybe 80 times at Candlestick. The homers I saw tended to be line drives, not big fly balls, but maybe that was because the wind knocked those down (before the full stands were built). It never bothered me much if he struck out or flied out. But I felt cheated if he just fouled out to first base, which he did pretty often. It was like he hadn't gotten a full chance. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 62 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
|
|
|
Kibitzing
