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Jul-12-08
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| ughaibu: Uhlmann vs Botvinnik, 1962 |
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Jul-12-08
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| pawn to QB4: Great link, ughaibu: if this game had been the opener in a Botvinnik-Fischer match, you could easily see game 2 looking like that (after an e4 opening of course). There's an excellent piece of advice from Botvinnik I quote at older players nervous of playing talented juniors. Basically, beat 'em up when they're up-and-coming, and they'll remember you when they outgrade you ten years later. Works a treat: I recently played a 20 year old graded above me, and he went down like the 14 year old he'd been for our previous meeting. Botvinnik's post game looks like an attempt at "if you can't beat 'em on the board, do it off the board". |
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Jul-12-08
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| Benzol: These two were to play a match in 1970 in the Netherlands but negotiations fell through. I can just imagine this scenario though. Fischer wouldn't turn up for the second game claiming cameras were putting him off his game, Botvinnik would request from a Doctor a medical certifcate supporting this claim and then Fischer would issue a protest claiming that Botvinnik was prompting Doctor between games. |
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| Aug-07-08 |
| Slurpeeman: 2 Pawn to QB4: I think you are (as so many American chessplayers) overestimate Fischer and underestimate Botvinnik. No chess player is unbeatable |
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| Oct-24-08 |
| mjmorri: This game is a good example of why Fischer was not yet "ready" in '62 despite being a candidate for the second cycle in a row. He plays a fine middle game to win a pawn, but then drifts about, displaying poor technique. Botvinnik, accepts the loss of the pawn, sucks it up, and, fighting the kind of fatigue that affects all older players in the fifth hour, holds off Fischer. Once the game was adjourned, Fischer had little chance of winning. |
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| Oct-24-08 |
| Petrosianic: <Benzol> <These two were to play a match in 1970 in the Netherlands but negotiations fell through.> Not exactly. It was a familiar picture. The match was set, Fischer demanded a new condition out of the blue and walked out when he didn't get it. At the last minute, Fischer decided that an 18 game match was too short, and demanded that it be changed to first to win 6 games. When Fischer walked, the match was replaced with a tournament in Leiden between Spassky, Larsen, Donner and Botvinnik. |
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Oct-24-08
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| keypusher: <Slurpeeman: 2 Pawn to QB4: I think you are (as so many American chessplayers) overestimate Fischer and underestimate Botvinnik. No chess player is unbeatable> <pawn to QB4> is (1) not American (2) nowhere that I can see accuses Fischer of being unbeatable. |
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Oct-24-08
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| Tessie Tura: <Benzol> <These two were to play a match in 1970 in the Netherlands but negotiations fell through.> <Petrosianic><Not exactly. It was a familiar picture. The match was set, Fischer demanded a new condition out of the blue and walked out when he didn't get it.At the last minute, Fischer decided that an 18 game match was too short, and demanded that it be changed to first to win 6 games. When Fischer walked, the match was replaced with a tournament in Leiden between Spassky, Larsen, Donner and Botvinnik.> While we’re dotting the Is and crossing the Ts, we might as well note that Fischer didn’t walk, the organizers refused to agree to his new requirements and canceled. Not that I don’t understand their position. |
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| Jan-05-09 |
| AuN1: the world champion, botvinnik, drew with the white pieces against the 19 year-old american, after being aided by the soviet team during adjournment, and this is considered a great success? |
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Jan-19-09
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| amadeus: New link for the article mentioned by <Fan of Leko>: http://ticc.uvt.nl/icga/journal/con... |
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| Jan-20-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: <AuN1: the world champion, botvinnik, drew with the white pieces against the 19 year-old american, after being aided by the soviet team during adjournment, and this is considered a great success? > Great question. It shows you the strength that Fischer already had, and even further developed. The Russians knew early that Fischer was a threat unlike any they had seen before, even some of the legendary GMs. |
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Jan-21-09
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| ughaibu: So this draw was a better result than Reshevsky's in the 1955 USSR-USA match? |
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Aug-02-09
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| Knight13: <ughaibu: So this draw was a better result than Reshevsky's in the 1955 USSR-USA match?> People become biased when it comes to Fischer's games. |
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| Aug-02-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: Of course it's better to win than to draw. But the difference was, Reshevsky wasn't 19 for the 1955 match, he was close to his prime. That's the point: Fischer was only just getting started, and you already could argue about whether he could beat the world champion or not. The scary thing was that Fischer would get <better> with age. |
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Sep-05-09
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| notyetagm: An *incredible* game.
Even Fischer's draws were great! :-) |
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Sep-30-09
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| timhortons: winning line for fischer by jan van reek
it takes depth 24 for my rybka see the 45....h5
[FEN " 
click for larger view"]
[PlyCount "29"]
45... h5 46. h4+ Kh6 47. Rf4 Rc5 48. Rd4 Ra5 49. f4 Kg7 50. Kf3 Kf6 51.
Ke4 Ke6 52. Rc4 Rc5 53. Rb4 Ke7 54. Kd3 Kf6 55. Ke4 Ke6 56. Rd4 a5 57. Ke3 Rc3+
58. Ke4 Rb3 (58... Rc6) 59. Rc4 Rb4 *
final position
click for larger view1.  (-7.12): 60.Kd3 Rxc4
2. (-7.21): 60.Kd4 Rxc4+
3. (-7.37): 60.Rd4 Rxd4+
(, 30.09.2009) |
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Oct-01-09
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| timhortons:
click for larger view"three world champions analyzed this position extensively:Botvinnik,fischer,kasparov.None of them was able to find a convincing winning variation." "In 1998 chess analyst jan van reek had the idea that the move 45.. Rc5 might be incorrect one and might better have been replaced by 45....h5!" from the book Bobby fischer the wandering king page 143 |
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Oct-01-09
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| timhortons: jan van reek analyzed the position with the help of computers. |
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| Nov-26-09 |
| 19842009: hand 2 hand |
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Dec-07-09
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| RandomVisitor: From the ICGA Journal of December, 2000:
According to Van Reek (1998), the winning variation starts with <45. ... h5!!> A strategy of active consolidation begins. The first key move consolidates the King's side. <46. h4+ Kh6>. A tactical justification of the variation is 47. a5 b5! 48. Rf6!? b4 49. a6!? b3 50. Rf3 b2 51. Rb3 Rc3+! <47. Rf4 Rc5!> The second key move starts a consolidation of the Queen's side. <48. Rd4 Ra5>. The flanks are now consolidated by Black, and he is ready for activity. The black moves were calculated by the computers. For instance, the programs investigated 45. ... Rc4? Botvinnik (1985) refuted this move by 46. a5 bxa5 47. Rf7 a6 48. h4+ Kh6 49. Rd7! In the evaluations by FRITZ 6, 45. ... h5 became choice nine from nineteen potential moves. Other moves calculated by FRITZ 6 were 47. ... Rc3+ 48. f3 a5? and 48. ... a5? HIARCS 7.32 computed 47. ... a5? and 48. ... b5? These moves weaken the b-Pawn, an essential asset of Black's position. The second variation continues with <49. f4>. White prevents ... g5. <49. ... Kg7>. Black begins a strategy of restriction by moving his King to the central area. <50. Kf3 Kf6 51. Ke4 Ke6 52. Rc4 Rc5 53. Rb4>. Both programs had no difficulty in finding the central movement by the black King. Diagram 3 has been reached. If White has to move, Black wins. Therefore Black plays <53. ... Ke7>! The first key move: the black King begins a triangle manoeuvre <54. Kd3 Kf6 55. Ke4 Ke6>. A move exchange has been completed. The programs computed 53. ... Rc6!? This move seems to be a dual win (54. a5 bxa5 55. Ra4 Rc5 56. Ra2 Rb5!). HIARCS 7.32 confirmed the other two moves by Black in the second variation. FRITZ 6 gave 54. ... Kf6 and 54. ... Kf7 as equal choices and calculated 55. ... Rc6?! <56. Rd4 a5!> The second key move completes the zugzwang manoeuvre. <57. Ke3 Rc3+ 58. Ke4 Rb3 59. Rc4 Rb4> and wins. Both programs confirmed the last four moves by Black. |
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Dec-07-09
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| RandomVisitor: After 45...h5:
1: Mikhail Botvinnik - Robert James Fischer, Varna Olympiad Final 1962
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 3 : <6-piece tablebase in use> <[-1.24] d=33 46.h4+> Kh6 47.Rf4 Rc3+ 48.f3 a5 49.Rd4 Rb3 50.Rd8 Rb4 51.Rd6 Kg7 52.Rc6 Rxa4 53.Rxb6 Rb4 54.Ra6 a4 55.Rd6 Kf7 56.Ra6 Rc4 57.Kh3 Rd4 01:16:54 922418kN, tb=55037 |
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Dec-07-09
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| RandomVisitor: After 45...h5 46.h4+ Kh6 47.Rf4 Rc5, black needs to demonstrate a win against these moves:
click for larger viewRybka 3: <5-piece tablebases in use> [-1.11] d=29 <48.f3> Kg7 49.Rd4 Kf6 50.Rd6+ Kf5 51.Rd7 Ra5 52.Rd4 Ke5 [-1.11] d=29 <48.Rb4> Kg7 49.Rd4 Kf6 50.Rd6+ Kf5 51.f3 Ra5 52.Rd4 Ke5 53.Re4+ Kd5 54.Kf4 Kd6 |
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Dec-07-09
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| RandomVisitor: After something like 41...a5 white needs to demonstrate a drawing line:
click for larger viewRybka 3:
[-1.66] d=18 42.Re3 Rd2 43.Rc3 Kf6 44.Kf3 Ke5 45.Ke3 Rd4 46.Ke2 Rh4 [-1.63] d=18 42.Rf3 Rb4 43.Rc3 Kf6 44.a3 Rd4 45.h4 |
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Dec-08-09
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| RandomVisitor: see this link for additional analysis - I don't want to take up too much space here: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzesz4a6/... |
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Dec-14-09
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| refutor: my head's dizzy from analyzing this on my own and with the help of Fischer's "My 60 Memorable Games". i'm not sure i want to move up to kasparov's analysis much less RandomVisitor's :) |
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