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|Aug-29-12|| ||TheFocus: This is game 39 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.|
|Nov-01-12|| ||kardopov: <So what is the final verdict on this magnificent game?|
Did Black miss a win?> Does Rybka or Houdini "commented" on this game? What's the verdict?
|Nov-01-12|| ||Joshka: <kardopov> Fischer in his 2007 notes states, he was overly optimistic in thinking he had a won game. Cause he was writing in 1969, about a position that was NOT included in M60MG. It's very very complicated, around 34 pages of analysis, compared to just 14 pages in M60MG. When addressing the "13 year old schoolboy outplays Fischer" comments (Kasparov was 13 in Botvinnik's school), Fischer writes,|
I've got quite a bit to say about the Weinstein "schoolboy analysis" that Botvinnik had the gall to publish way back when. The line in question is 67. Rc4 Rb3+ 68. Rc3 which will produce a draw after the barrage of checks is completely exhausted. After 67. Rc4 Black can make the game infinitely more interesting with 67...Rb7! which "ducks the draw" until about move 91. This forces White into a position requiring the utmost precision to play for an extended period of time,creating "fighting chess" for both sides, much better I'd say.
My "response to the schoolboy"----
67. Rc4 Rb7! 68. Qf8+ Ka2 69. Qf6 Rb3+ 70. Rc3 Rb6! 71. Qf7+ Kb2 72. Rd3 ( both sides playing fighting chess, imagine that!) 72...Qe1+ 73. Kf3 a5! 74. Qf4 Qh1+ 75. Ke3 Qc1+! 76. Kf3 Qc6+ 77. Ke2 a4! 78. Qe5+ Ka2 79. Rd2+ Ka3 80. Qe3+ Kb4 and with 81. Rb2+ Ka5 we have this position: And a position is pictured with, White having his King on e2, Queen on e3, pawn on f2, and his rook on b2. Black has his King on a5, pawn on a4, Rook on b6, and his queen on c6. And right under this diagram is written in bold Black type
"Responding to the "schoolboy" Garry Weinstein, after 81...Ka5
82. Qd2+ (82. Qxb6+ Qxb6 83. Rxb6 Kxb6 is how I would expect today's non-fighting Grandmasters to play it) 82...Ka6 83. Rxb6+ Qxb6 84. Qd7 a3! 85. Qa4+ Qa5! ( creative play in a position worthy of being labeled as "art")
86. Qd4 (86. Qxa5+? Kxa5 87. f4 a2 wins) 86...Qb5+ 87. Kd1! Ka5 88. Kd2 Qb3 89. Qa7+ Kb4 90. Qd4+ Ka5 91. Qa7+ draw. That's the chess I remember!"
|Nov-02-12|| ||RookFile: Well, the the belief was that Fischer was winning up until 41....Ne4. My understanding is that once it was a pure rook ending, it was going to be a draw, despite Fischer's attempts to show a win. Botvinnik and Kasparov found drawing answers for those attempts.|
|Nov-02-12|| ||Joshka: <rookfile> Yes, he does concede a draw, but if using the diagram he thought was in the 1969 book, he shows a win. He goes on to explain which diagram he was responding to, and which one was used for the 1969 book, but it's very detailed, and a bit hard to write out, at least for me. Maybe <IMlday> could separate it all out, but it's a bit beyond me for the moment anyway. He also shows much analysis where Botvinnik was wrong, just so much analysis, it's gets muddy.|
|Nov-02-12|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: @Rookfile and Joshka
one must not forget the real genious who found the draw. Geller. There is a certain irony there because Efim was simply Bobbys bÍte noire OTB. The accounts of the adjournment are fascinating. The Soviets were wrapped up by Botvinnik/Fischer. They had to find a draw I guess. And there was Bobby. Alone.
|Nov-02-12|| ||Joshka: <SimonWebbsTiger> Yes Bobby does write that Geller was part of the Russian contingency as opposed to what Bobby had/ Robert and Donald Byrne, "Byrne-ing" the midnight oil in a separate room. The complete analysis team consisted of:|
* Mikhail Tal, former World Champion.
* Boris Spassky, a future World Champion.
* Mikhail Botvinnik, reigning World Champion.
* Paul Keres, possible the strongest player never to have become World Champion.
* Efim Geller, who eventually won three straight games against me (from 1965 to 1967).
* Soviet players/trainers Boleslavsky and Furman.
|Nov-02-12|| ||kardopov: <* Mikhail Tal, former World Champion. * Boris Spassky, a future World Champion. * Mikhail Botvinnik, reigning World Champion. * Paul Keres, possible the strongest player never to have become World Champion. * Efim Geller, who eventually won three straight games against me (from 1965 to 1967). * Soviet players/trainers Boleslavsky and Furman.> |
Wow! What an armada Mikahil have at his disposal! It's the best of the bests. If not for his legion of assistants, he could have been crushed by Fischer in this game. That's why I admire Fischer the more despite his negative traits. Fischer came, scaled, and conquered... the Soviet's juggernaut in winning the world crown. Special commendation must be handed over to Robert and Donald for byrne'ying the midnight oil. Are they brothers?
|Nov-02-12|| ||kardopov: Are there any recorded games between Botvinnik and Fischer aside from this one?|
|Nov-02-12|| ||HeMateMe: <kardopov>
Well, I understand that they went bowling together at the "Comrade Stalin Super Lanes" in Varna, Bulgaria, on a night off.
Things were going fine, then Fischer was down a few pins. He started to complain about the lighting. Adjustments were made.
Then, he accused the other bowlers of "bowling too loudly"--they were really knocking some pins down. The owner had all the other kegglers thrown out, only M.B. and Fischer remained.
Still, trouble. Fischer accused the Soviet contingent of beaming magnetic waves at him, through the electronic pin resetter, via metallic dust imprinted on Bob's shoes. Supposedly, this would impair Bobby's hand-eye coordination.
Bob demanded new shoes. Also, the auto pin resetter was shut down, and live people were posted near the back to reset the pins. One had to be rushed to the dentist, when a queer gutter bowl took a weird bounce and took out his lower canines. No senior prom for that one!
Still, Misha led by a few pins. However, the always opportunistic Fischer noticed an erasure on M.B.'s scoresheet.
"How do I know what you changed there--did you add some pins to your total!?
"Bobby, this is just bowling. Have a grape Ne-hi and steady your nerves".
Fischer demanded that Botvinnik resign the bowling match, due to "scoring peculiarities".
Soviet security leader Felix Dzherinsky said "Begone, you pampered goldfish! We did it to Trotzky, and we can do it to you!"
The match was never completed. The owner of the bowling alley apologized for Fischer's behavior and gave the whole Soviet contingent complementary grape Ne-His and pin ups of Sophia Loren.
Michail Botvinnik went on to become a leader on the professional bowling tour. He was never in time trouble, although he occassionally fouled. Even today, when a bowler finishes a game with three strikes, its called a <Misha, Misha, Misha!>
dispirited from the experience, and Varna, Bulgaria in general, Bob forsake bowling until 1972, when he again took up the sport in Reyjkavik Iceland, infuriating an entire new class of sportsmen.
|Nov-02-12|| ||kardopov: Ugh! What an unsportsmanlike conduct Fischer has. He is a bitter loser that's why he always play for a win. By the way, is this story true? I heard related stories regarding Fischer's misconduct, one including a fistic scuffle against a GM. Are they also true? If they are, well, he really has a bad behavior.|
|Nov-02-12|| ||Landman: <kardopov> HeMateMe is joking.|
|Nov-02-12|| ||whiteshark: So why do all biographers miss this historically important episode reported here by <H#M>???|
|Nov-02-12|| ||kardopov: <Landman: <kardopov> HeMateMe is joking> LOL!|
|Nov-03-12|| ||HeMateMe: I don't make stuff up. You can google it.|
|Nov-03-12|| ||kardopov: Just provide the link.|
|Nov-14-12|| ||Honza Cervenka: <fab4: Fischer was 'cheated' out of a win in this game. How many uber elite players was he up against ??!|
Who or what was he playing???>
He was playing Botvinnik. In adjournment the position was heavily analyzed by both teams as was standard practice in chess olympiads all the time, and Soviets simply did their homework better than Americans.
|Nov-15-12|| ||kardopov: <He was playing Botvinnik. In adjournment the position was heavily analyzed by both teams as was standard practice in chess olympiads all the time, and Soviets simply did their homework better than Americans.> And Fischer declared ten years later "It will never happen again", while sitting opposite Boris Spassky for the 1972 World Chess Crown.|
|Nov-15-12|| ||keypusher: <kardopov: <He was playing Botvinnik. In adjournment the position was heavily analyzed by both teams as was standard practice in chess olympiads all the time, and Soviets simply did their homework better than Americans.> And Fischer declared ten years later "It will never happen again", while sitting opposite Boris Spassky for the 1972 World Chess Crown.>|
So you think he had already decided to quit?
|Nov-15-12|| ||kardopov: <So you think he had already decided to quit?> My bad. I've made a wrong opinion.|
|Feb-22-13|| ||Sneaky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3TM... courtesy of our very own <JFQ> :)|
|Feb-22-13|| ||RookFile: It's an interesting point that this game may explain why Fischer analyzed like a maniac all his adjourned games against Spassky.|
|Mar-24-13|| ||wachter123680: its simple, Botvinnik had it at 61.|
|Mar-24-13|| ||perfidious: <wachter> Botvinnik was 51 then; moreover, if he had had not that elite team behind him, it is quite possible he would not have saved the ending.|
|Mar-24-13|| ||harrylime: Bobby was up against an empire. As the history surrounding this one game proves.. |
And that's why he's the greatest..
For what he over came.
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