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|Aug-18-05|| ||Koster: Euwe also lived in an occupied country and refused to play in all such tournaments. As for Alekhine read his thought provoking series of articles on Aryan vs. Jewish chess.|
|Aug-18-05|| ||RookFile: It's not thought provoking, it's anti-semitic nonsense, for which he was quite rightly held accountable.|
|Aug-18-05|| ||sitzkrieg: @ Acirce;
(" How would it look if a top player today played in a tournament organized by Israel for propaganda value on the West Bank?")
To answer ur silly question; it would be chess and not politics..It would look good..I dont see ur propoganda point at all. Keres was in occupied territory ( by the way i dont know if I d say Sazlburg was "occupied") and had to make a living. Should everybody stop their hobbies and jobs in such cases? I rather think that such a tournament in f.e. Prague was a welcome distraction for its inhabitants.
|Aug-18-05|| ||Koster: ALEKHINE AND JUNGE AT PRAGUE
In the year 1942
there was a chess tournament in Prague
nominally to honour the veteran Czech master Oldrich Duras (born 1882)
in 1942 Prague was in the Protectorate Bohemia-Moravia
ruled by Reich-Protector Reinhard Heydrich
second in command of the SS
Hitler wished to spread the message
that "normal conditions" prevailed throughout his Empire
so sporting events were encouraged
provided the right people competed
and the right people won
It was an all-play-all event with 12 players
there were the Czechs Foltys, Opocensky, Zita, Kottenauer, Rejfir, and Hromadka
there were two Germans, the veteran Sämisch and the youngster Junge
and the World Champion, Alexander Alekhine
a Russian emigre who had settled in France
where he deserted his Russian wife and married a wealthy American
a chess player of tremendous ability
famed for the depth of his thought and his commitment to the game
Alekhine the player evoked universal admiration
but Alekhine the man often aroused hostility
The outbreak of war found Alekhine in Argentina
competing in the Chess Olympiad
this was a team event
Germany narrowly won from Poland
as Poland was eliminated from the map
the German and Polish masters stayed in South America
Alekhine did not
he returned to France and joined the French Army
on the French capitulation he was demobilised
he went to Portugal for a time
then returned to France
he mingled with the Nazi conquerors
played in their tournaments
wrote articles for their newspapers
where he stated that only "Aryans"
could "play chess artistically"
(to prove this point
the SS murdered the Jewish masters
Landau of Holland, Wolf of Austria, and Przepiorka of Poland)
Alekhine was brusque and rude and often drunk
but he was still Champion of the World.
|Aug-18-05|| ||chancho: Anybody who thinks Keres was really feeling nice and comfy playing Alekhine in this game,(while his country was being occupied by the Nazis) and Alekhine reprensenting Germany in these WWII tournaments, should not be too surprised if Keres did not put a real competitive effort.|
|Aug-19-05|| ||ughaibu: Is nobody going to suggest that Keres was forced to throw the game?|
|Aug-19-05|| ||WMD: <passes RookFile an Irony Detector>|
|Aug-19-05|| ||RookFile: If Keres was forced to throw the game,
who would benefit, and why?
|Aug-19-05|| ||chancho: I don't know if Keres threw this game. I do think he was more concerned with survival, than winning a chess game IMO.|
|Aug-19-05|| ||ughaibu: Alekhine would benefit.|
|Aug-19-05|| ||RookFile: Would anybody besides Alekhine benefit?|
|Aug-19-05|| ||ughaibu: Alekhine's wife.|
|Aug-19-05|| ||euripides: <WMD <passes RookFile an Irony Detector>> Didn't you check it was working ?|
|Aug-19-05|| ||sitzkrieg: I guess Ughaibu is kidding..
But to chancho; Alekhine was not playing for the Germans or representing the Germans; the German favorite was probably Junge. Both Keres and Alekhine had at least partly a reason to play to earn money for a living. Keres won some games but just didnt play as strong as Alekhine during this period. This may be cause he had psychological problems because of the war, but he certainly did not have to throw his games when playing Alekhine.
An other note;
Before the war; at the Olympiad Alekhine had strongly insulted the Germans; and his later writings ( he himself says he didnt write them; probably a lie) are probably more to be explained as out of opportunism then out of conviction- that doesnt make it any less bad of course.
As for Euwe (@Koster); Euwe had a job even during the war; and didnt need to play. Also he played much less tournaments before and after the war too. However i think it doens matter cause Alekhine and Keres were not wrong for playing chess during the war.
Last but not least;
maybe there is some explanation in the fact that both players had suffered much from the communists in Russia, the arch enemies of the Germans.
|Aug-19-05|| ||chancho: Poor,Poor,Alekhine. He plays in 7 tournaments in Germany, and German occupied territories. He writes Anti Semitic articles downgrading jews. He is a welcomed guest at Hans Frank's house, and he is doing all this under duress. Aww schucks!Keres did play in German tournaments, but more than likely he REALLY was under duress.His country was under the control of the enemy after all.|
|Aug-19-05|| ||sitzkrieg: Lol, read! I dont say he is poor; i say he did nothing wrong playing those tournaments and a man has got to make a living if u are a chess players like this.. His articles; assuming they were his ( the investigation never took place) were indeed disgusting from what i heard; but that is another thing.|
It is easy for u to make comments in this situation..
|Aug-19-05|| ||chancho: <Sitzkrieg> You on the other hand have the answers? Get real. The anti Semitic papers that were written by Alekhine, were purportedly seen in his wife's effects ten years later.I also read somewhere that all his papers are set to be released for public scrutiny in 2006. I guess we will then find out for sure if Alekhine was in collusion with the Nazis.What about his socializing with Hans Frank during the war? A known Jewish mass murderer, can you explain that?|
|Aug-19-05|| ||chancho: I did not mean Alekhine was literally poor as in needing money. Although he was playing for money. I was just being sarcastic.|
|Aug-19-05|| ||Sneaky: Lasker made comments in some of his writing of "the inferior races of mankind", although he didn't specify exactly which races these were. Such opinions at the time were considered self-evident and not controversial in the least.|
So Alekhine is said to have written about the differences between "Aryan Chess" and "Jewish Chess." Well, maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but who really cares? It's not a sign of Alekhine's character, it's a sign of the times.
|Aug-20-05|| ||ughaibu: Sneaky: what's your source for that? There's a story by Kmoch in which Lasker illustrates his contempt for the racist views of national socialists by explaining how he could teach the meaning of 'i' to a kid taken straight from the jungles of Africa. It doesn't fit with an idea of inferior races as I read it.|
|Aug-20-05|| ||chancho: <Sneaky>Those articles seemingly harmless,as they were.Were written by Alekhine at the behest of the Germans.They were published in the Parisian Newspaper,which was German controlled at the time.The Germans were problably already proceeding with the annihilation of Jews.France was Nazi controlled,So the Jews there,were most likely getting rounded up for extermination.Alekhine was not suffering any privation while in Nazi hands so one can infer that he was in collusion with them.|
|Aug-20-05|| ||RookFile: I was reading a biography of Alekhine.
It gives an interesting bit of information about the tournament where this game was played. At this
location, the Sound of Music was later filmed. At the time, this tournament location was Hitler's summer residence, and he probably popped in to watch a few of the games from this tournament.
|Aug-20-05|| ||Speed Zamboni Driver: < WMD >
Maybe Keres being forced to blow the WC tournament IS true.
Stalin had people sent to the gulag for far less than this photo of a pleasant evening with the German Wermacht.
|Aug-20-05|| ||WMD: <Stalin had people sent to the gulag for far less than this photo of a pleasant evening with the German Wermacht.>|
As opposed to, say, the Italian Wehrmacht?
But I accept the point, even if it's one I wasn't arguing against.
|Sep-25-09|| ||WhiteRook48: Keres gets destroyed!|
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