< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jun-20-07|| ||pggarner: I think Black would have been OK if he'd played 16...Qf7, threatening to steamroll through White's defenses with 17...d4.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||YouRang: Jeez, I spent the longest time trying to make 18. Qb7 work. I think it leaves white a little better, but I decided that there had to be more than that.|
Then, in a moment's glance, I noticed the royal pin after 18. Rxd5, allowing the white to pick up the d8 rook for free.
Funny how an idea can be so elusive in one moment, and then jump in your face the next moment.
|Jun-20-07|| ||dabearsrock1010: I found this puzzle rather easy winning the pawn, however it would have been nice to notice that blacks game is further doomed by his pinned knight|
|Jun-20-07|| ||newton296: tricky pin here, and I didn't see it. I guess I gotta work on those pins some more!|
|Jun-20-07|| ||kevin86: I saw this one pretty quickly,owing to the double pin by ♕ at b3 and ♖ at d1.|
If white does not win a piece,he certainly gains many tempi with the tying up of the ♘ at b8.With the extra time,white could advance his king and harass black's pawns-even picking one or more off in the process. Then he exchanges rooks and minor pieces to arrive at a winning pawn ending.
|Jun-20-07|| ||deefree: One thing that can throw a player off is the unexpected reality that a Queen can be pinned by another Queen. Here the black queen is caught in 2 pins and they are awful, awful bad ones.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||Fezzik: <MAJ>
Thanks for the computer analysis! I was surprised to see the computer agree that White's about a Rook up, which is how several humans also evaluated it!
|Jun-20-07|| ||deefree: I agree with Fezzik's earlier comment that black might be busted as early as move 9 or so. He is clearly playing catch up and his game already seems perilous after 12. Bxe4. Nice thematic game.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Fezzik: I was surprised to see the computer agree that White's about a Rook up, which is how several humans also evaluated it!>|
To me, the interesting difference is that Hiarcs seems to arrive at the "rook up" valuation not because the black is going to lose a rook or a knight any time soon, but apparently by taking into the account the immobility of black pieces and the great potential of the white pawns....
|Jun-20-07|| ||deefree: The free version of Fritz (Chessbase "Light" w/engine Fritz 4.01) suggests 14...d6 instead of c5 and my initial reaction when playing over the game was also d6. c5 just "feels" dangerous. After all it is immediately under attack.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||beenthere240: <pggarner> If 16...Qf7 (which really threatens nothing in particular) 17. cxb6 and black's f-rook is threatened. After it moves, the attack is ended and black's postition is even more hopeless. 17...d4? 18. cxd.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||deefree: 19...Qd6?? is an unfortunate choice. 19...Qe6 would keep him playing, though his chances would be slim.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||thorndeux: <dzechiel> I really like your technique of writing down your thoughts on the puzzle of the day. We all gain a lot from it and more often than not you are right on. Today there was a little oversight in your analysis, though:|
<After 19 Rxd5 c4 white plays 20 Rxd6 cxb3 21 Rxd8+ Kf7 22 axb3 and, while material is even, black cannot move either the rook or the knight without loosing the other. 23 Bd6 will end the games soon.>
In fact, material is not equal here. As black hasn't captured the rook on d5 he is down a rook, while white has one on d8 and one on f1. Hence, 19...c4 is out of the question.
|Jun-20-07|| ||fm avari viraf: At first glance, I could get it since two decades ago, I won the game with the similar tactics. After the text move 20.Rd1 Black lands in a hopeless predicament hence surrenders.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||Ragh: ♖ sac at 19.Rxd5 is simply amazing!! move by Dreev.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||beenthere240: <deefree> 18....Qe6 would have been a hard move to make since it simply conceeds the c pawn for nothing. If you want a move that prolongs the loss, 18....Kh8, breaking the pin of the d5 pawn is better.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||dzechiel: <thorndeux: In fact, material is not equal here. As black hasn't captured the rook on d5 he is down a rook, while white has one on d8 and one on f1. Hence, 19...c4 is out of the question.>|
I stand corrected! This must be the line that <Infohunter> referenced in an earlier post. Thanks for keeping me honest!
|Jun-20-07|| ||Magic Castle: I think we can learn more if we focused on black's best move after 17. Rad1. Its my honest opinion that 17. ...Rd8? is a blunder that leds to black's loss. My suggested move is 17....Qb7. Avoiding the pins. For example: 17. Rad1 Rad8 or 18. Rab1 Qc3. Then the knight can go to a3 - c2 at the proper time, connecting the rooks. What do you think guys. Does black can at least get a draw or simply will only prolong the agony.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||tarek1: <Magic Castle>
The Qb7 suggestion looks interesting.
The plan you suggest for Black seems good to me - too bad Black can't play several moves in a row - then all his problems would disappear !
In this position white has a lead in development and a strong initiative - and with the initiative the golden rule
is "use it or lose it". The suggested Rb1 (I'm not sure about the other move Rad1 since there's already a rook in d1, and in addition you seem a little confused on the square numbers ;)) is too slow, the position must be treated energetically or the advantage will vanish.
After Qb7, Fritz suggests the strong 18.c4! and what can Black do ? on dxc4 Bxc5 attacking the rook, followed by Qxc4+ and an overwhelming position.
Of course it's not as radical as the actual game but it justs "prolongs the agony" as you said.
|Jun-20-07|| ||patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, White initiates a winning pinning combination with 19. Rxd5!|
Note that, after 18...Qd6, the combination does not work if the Black King is on f8 instead of g8.
|Jun-20-07|| ||patzer2: Perhaps instead of 9...Ne4 (moving a piece twice in the opening), Black would have been better off developing the other Knight with 9...Nc6.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||vibes43: I saw both pin possibilities but failed to combine them for the play. This was hard for me partly because no quickie mate in sight. A great puzzle though.|
|Jun-20-07|| ||greensfield: Exploit pining situation. 19.Rxd5 Qxd5 20.Rd1|
|Jun-20-07|| ||Crowaholic: I dismissed 19. Rxd5 too quickly because of ..Qxd5 and did not even consider 20. Rd1. Too bad. I looked at the solution and upon seeing 19. Rxd5, I realized my mistake and figured out the continuation of 19. ..Qxd5 20. Rd1 Qxb3 21. Rxe8+ Kf7 22. axb3, but I thought to myself: Gosh, all this trouble to win a pawn. Although then I realized that the awkward placement of the remaining Black pieces will cause Black to lose some more pawns and succumb in the endgame in any event.|
My consolation for today lies in the fact that, at least, I seem to have less trouble counting rooks than some other folks around here... :o)
|Jul-17-08|| ||The Ninth Pawn: From Game Collection: The Ninth Pawn's Chess Course :|
In Dreev vs E Gleizerov, 1992 , we see again a CROSS-PIN, the Black queen being pinned to both d8-rook and g8-king after 20. ♖f1-d1! Note here also the use of a ZWISCHENZUG which will be explained in more detail later on.
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