|Nov-17-14|| ||keypusher: A rare unkibitzed Fischer game. It's actually pretty interesting throughout, but relevant today because they reached a R+N v. R ending. Fischer played it for 10 moves before agreeing to the draw.|
|Nov-17-14|| ||Petrosianic: And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.|
|Nov-17-14|| ||keypusher: Explaining why I said "relevant today."
Carlsen vs Anand, 2014
|Nov-17-14|| ||Petrosianic: And to explain further, there are those trying (desperately) to make the case that it's somehow unethical not to agree to an immediate draw in this ending.|
|Nov-17-14|| ||zanzibar: Yes, not unethical. But equally "superfluous".
(Just look at Fischer's last moves at the end.)
Thanks <keypusher> for point this game out.
|Nov-17-14|| ||Petrosianic: Well, if you want another World Championship game, how about this one:|
Alekhine vs Capablanca, 1927
Capablanca played on for 12 moves after reaching this endgame, but it had been objectively drawn for some time before that. Alekhine had started out with 4 pawns against the Knight, but was unable to bring home the point. After being on the defensive, Capa probably wanted to look at an apparently superior position for a while before agreeing to the draw. Or maybe he thought he might win it but gave up quickly.
A different ending, but even in this game between two players who hated each other, nobody complained about Korchnoi playing on far too long after blowing the win, and insisting on playing it to stalemate (the first in World Championship history).
Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1978
|Nov-17-14|| ||RookFile: The Alekhine vs. Capa example is game, set, and match.|
|Nov-17-14|| ||Everett: <A different ending, but even in this game between two players who hated each other, nobody complained about Korchnoi playing on far too long after blowing the win, and insisting on playing it to stalemate (the first in World Championship history).|
Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1978>
I had thought this indeed created a stir at the time
|Nov-17-14|| ||zanzibar: <RE: Korchnoi vs Karpov 1978 Stalemate>|
<<Astardis:> Korchnoi mentions this game in several of his books. In that time, him and Karpov did not at all talk to each other - not even to agree to a draw. so it was rather difficult to draw for them. plus they did not really like the idea of giving the opponent a draw. at some point Korchnoi writes "It then was my pleasure to stalemate the World Champion">
Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1978 (#39)
|Nov-17-14|| ||zanzibar: Of course, the ~"not on speaking terms" makes for a good story, but then one wonders how they managed to draw the very next game after only 23 moves|
|Nov-17-14|| ||Petrosianic: <I had thought this indeed created a stir at the time>|
Not that I remember. The biggest stir was about the win Korchnoi had missed earlier. And I remember they talked about Korchnoi's endgame books being lost in transit and them desperately trying to get a hold of them before the game was resumed, but when they did, all they did was confirm that the ending was drawn. I don't remember any flak against Korchnoi playing too long, though. However, the western press was largely pro-Korchnoi, and so you wouldn't expect them to go after him.
I'm not sure how draws were offered in that match without looking it up. Maybe through the arbiter. But it makes sense that Korchnoi would be so disgusted with himself that he wouldn't want to accept a draw offer, and certainly wouldn't want to offer one himself.
|Nov-18-14|| ||zanzibar: Keene's Aug 4, 1978 Spectator article is a contemporaneous report:|
Here is the OCR of the article that is available:
<TOiya totters FlaYmond Keene Baguio After a quiet draw in the fourth game of his title defence, an Open Ruy Lopez which followed the second game for fourteen Moves and lasted only another five, World ,iChampion Anatoly Karpov, Tolya to his friends, tottered in the fifth game. But he regained his balance when Korchnoi on move 56 played one of the most horrendous blunders ever seen in a world championship Match. 10 <.y move 70 it became clear that Korchnoi's chance of winning had gone for Lood but the game meandered on and ;.mkallY ended in stalemate on move 124. 4"e boredom of the final stages of the game ,Was alleviated by the fact that it eventually Championship two records. It was the longest World ‘-hampionship game (and indeed longer than
the other five games put together) and the first ever to end in stalemate.>
v. The opening of game 6 was a small moral ile,sr°rY for Korchnoi as Karpov abandoned -K4 with which he had obtained no advantage in games 2 and 4 in favour of the
English Opening. Again Korchnoi equalised easily and, in fact, had some advantage when the game was agreed drawn on move 23. The game was played in the interval between the second and third sessions of the traumatic fifth game and the early draw may reflect the exhaustion of both players. It has been suggested that Karpov is deliberately soft-pedalling with White in order to discover Korchnoi's main line defences and thus prepare more deeply for them at a later stage. However, this exposes him to a rough tune with Black and at the end of the second session of the fifth game he looked haggard and shattered.>
So, it's even more interesting than I thought. Game 6 was played while game 5 was "meandering on".
Meandering on? Not my words...
<By move 70 it became clear that
Korchnoi's chance of winning had gone for good but the game meandered on and it finally ended in stalemate on move 124. The boredom of the final stages of the game was alleviated by the fact that it eventually Championship two records. It was the longest World Championship game (and indeed longer than the other five games put together) and the first ever to end in stalemate. [ed- OCR translation!]>
So, I would say calling it out as Keene does is a bit of a stir.
(I'm also going to duplicate this post in relevant game)
|Nov-18-14|| ||Petrosianic: <But he regained his balance when Korchnoi on move 56 played one of the most horrendous blunders ever seen in a world championship Match.>|
I wouldn't go that far, but I was about 1400 strength at the time, and even then, without looking at the game again, I remember Bf7+ looking obviously good, and Korchnoi's Be4+ looking painfully bad. Of course, what did I know then, right? The fact that it looked good to me didn't mean it was. But it does mean it was the sort of move that should have arrested anyone's attention. I can't believe Korchnoi looked at it and didn't play it, even in a time scramble.
<So, I would say calling it out as Keene does is a bit of a stir.>
Yeah, I'd agree there. But he doesn't accuse Korchnoi of being unethical, only boring. And at one point, i remember that they were playing for an adjournment to buy time for their endgame books to arrive in Baguio so that they could look at that ending more closely.
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