< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Nov-01-07|| ||mworld: oddly, i saw the line nearly as played...but didn't feel that I had accomplished anything remotely close to a puzzle solution.|
I think the real puzzle here is what is whites continuation to win?
|Nov-01-07|| ||stukkenjager: Sorry, this is way too complicated for me without computer. 35...Qe7 is no way near a draw, black is crushed after 35.♘g4 ♕e7 36.♘xf6+ ♕xf6 37.♕c7+ ♔g8 38.d5!! e5 39.♘xb6 ♕f8 (39... ♗e6 40. ♖c1) 40. ♖c1|
|Nov-01-07|| ||xKinGKooLx: I haven't played chess or been on this site for a while now, so I was a bit rusty. I saw the first move, but only because it looked the most forcing in the position. The possibilities after that move were far too complicated to call this a Thursday puzzle. I wouldn't have thought many people would have seen <stukkenjager>'s solution in a proper game. I suppose it all depends on how many moves you need to see to say you have solved this puzzle.|
|Nov-01-07|| ||xrt999: < amadeus: <xrt999>, 38.Nxb6 seems better than Nd6 >|
I just checked it out, but I didnt care for this line as much. Black immediately takes the d-pawn, and trades rooks, which is the reason I originally went with the blocking 38.Nd6 sealing off the d-file, preserving the d-pawn. (38.Nd6 is also an attacking move). After this exchange, black is eyeing the a-pawn and will have a brutal passed pawn if my Knight moves off b6. This ended very badly for me.
FYI: this time around I was noticing CM think lines: CM considered 35...f4 and quickly rejected it, going with 35...Qe7 again.
|Nov-01-07|| ||alcappacino: What about 35..Qxg3?|
|Nov-01-07|| ||zahbaz: I considered Ng4 with Nf6 as a follow-up...just didn't find what advantage I'd have IF black took g4 via the f pawn...|
Man, I must've gone BLIIND.
Now that I see it more clearly, great move idea. Looks like it'd most likely win a piece against most players.
|Nov-03-07|| ||patzer2: <stujkkenjager> Thanks for the post. You are correct that 35...Qe7 loses after 36. Nxf6+ Qxf6 37. Qc7+ Kg8 .|
However, perhaps even better than 38. Nxf6 might be 38. Nxb6! Qf8 39. Nxc8 Rxc8 40. Qd7 Ng6 41. Qxe6+ .
|Oct-15-15|| ||dfcx: white is down a pawn, black is "pinning" the white knight/queen, but white can turn it around.|
35.Ng4! attacking both queen and bishop.
If black takes the queen, 35...Qxg3? 36.Nxf6+ Kg6 37.fxg3 Kxg6 38.gxh4
If black refuses the queen, 35...Qe7 36.Nxf6+ Qxf6 37.Qc7+ wins a piece.
|Oct-15-15|| ||dfcx: Missed the defence 35...f4
Also miscalculated in my second line, 37.Qc7+ does not win a piece.
|Oct-15-15|| ||morfishine: Was able to figure out <35.Ng4> was the best move|
|Oct-15-15|| ||diagonalley: yep... i went 35.N-N4 ok, but i missed the winning 37.N-K8 ... drat :-(|
|Oct-15-15|| ||wooden nickel: This looked so easy at first 35.Nd7 Qxg3 36.Nxf6+ Kg6 37.fxg3 Kxf6 38.gxh4 gxh4 wins... but wait a minute, Black could just play 35... Rxd7, eliminating the pesky knight while protecting his queen and spoiling the "obvious" puzzle solution. This led to the less conspicuous move 35.Ng4! with a similar idea.
Now I know what Tartakower might have meant with <The second best move is often the only right one.>|
|Oct-15-15|| ||saturn2: 35 Nd7 seems not that bad.
35...Rxd7 36 Bxd7 Qxd7 37 Nxb6
white has exchanged N+B for R and the importand b6 pawn.
|Oct-15-15|| ||MindCtrol9: 35.Ng4 is the move I saw in no time due to the logic,nothing else.With this move,White takes advantage of the position of the black Bishop unprotected and Queen.It is a nice move and an excellent one which put Black against the ropes.|
|Oct-15-15|| ||MindCtrol9: The main idea ,from my point of view,playing <35.Ng4>is to eliminate the DSB for a positional play.You can see that pawn on b6 which makes White endgame an easy one.|
|Oct-15-15|| ||patzer2: <Saturn2> After <35. Nd7 Rxd7 36. Bxd7 Qxd7 37. Nxb6>, Deep Fritz 14 gives the continuation Qb7 38. Rc1 Qe4 39. Nxc8 f4 40. Qg4 Bxd4 41. Nd6 Qe5 42.
Nf7 Qd5 (+0.99 @ 23 depth).
So you're right, 35. Nd7 isn't so bad. It's just not as good as today's Thursday puzzle solution 35. Ng4! (+4.74 @ 23 depth).
P.S.: It would appear <34...g5?> was the losing move. Instead, Fritz indicates Black can hold with 34...Bg5 = when play might continue 35. Kh1 Qa7 36. d5 exd5 37. Bxd5 Be6 38. Nc6 Bxd5 39. Rxd5
Qf7 40. Rxd8 Bxd8 41. Nxb6 = (0.00 @ 23 depth).
|Oct-15-15|| ||agb2002: White has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair and a pawn.|
The black queen and the bishop on f6 are defenseless. This suggests 35.Ng4:
A) 35... Qxg3 36.Nxf6+ Kg6 (36... Kg7 37.Nh5+ and 38.Nxg3 + - [N vs P]) 37.fxg3 Nxg2 38.Kxg2 Kxf6 39.Nxb6 + - [N vs P].
B) 35... Qe7 36.Nxf6+
B.1) 36... Qxf6 37.Qc7+ followed by Nxb6 seems to win the other bishop. For example, 37... Kg6 38.Nxb6 Rxd4 39.Rxd4 Qxd4 40.Nxc8 Qxa4 41.Be8+ Kf6 42.Qc3+ e5 43.Qc6+ with a mate attack.
B.2) 36... Kg6 37.Be8+ Rxe8 (37... Kg7 38.Nh5+ followed by 39.Bc6 + - [N vs P]) 38.Nxe8 Qxe8 39.Nxb6 + - [R vs B].
B.3) 36... Kh8 37.Nh5 + - [N vs P].
C) 35... Qf7 36.Nxf6+ looks similar to B.
D) 35... f4 36.Nxf6+ Kg6 37.Qc3 Kxf6 38.d5+ looks very good for White. For example, 38... Kf7 39.d6 Qa7 40.Qc2 with the double threat Qh7+ and d7.
|Oct-15-15|| ||StevieB: I saw the first move (finally) but things got murky subsequently. So many choices....kinda hard for a Thursday.|
|Oct-15-15|| ||Helios727: <dfcx>, Your line 35... Qe7 36. Nxf6+ Qxf6 37. Qc7+ does win a piece or the exchange after 37... Kh8 (or Kg8, while Kg6 loses to Ne5+) 38. Nd6. And now if the black Queen goes to the back rank to protect the rook and double protect the bishop, 39. Nf7 and if 39... QxN 40. QxR.|
|Oct-15-15|| ||kevin86: I missed this one again :(|
|Oct-15-15|| ||Check It Out: Like others, I saw 35.Ng4 as the main move, but got lost in the complications shortly thereafter.|
|Oct-15-15|| ||PJs Studio: Usually I'm pretty good at these open middle game positions But I never saw 35.Ng4. |
In honor of the current MPB playoffs...
"Swing and a miss! Strike three."
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|Oct-16-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: White has a knight for pawn+bishop, but the knights are well entrenched, controlling the hole at e5, while black's LSB is of little consequence. The lineup of queens suggests a tactical opportunity.|
35.Ng4! (Nd7? Rxd7) and the discovery creates a double attack that black can't defend if white follows up properly:
A. 35...Qxg3 36.Nxf6+ Kg6 (Kg7 37.Nh5+) 37.fxg3 Kxf6 38.gxh4 keeps an extra piece.
B. 35... Qg7 (/e7/f7) 36.Nxf6+ Qxf6 37.Qc7+ Kg8 38.Nd6 Rxd6 (otherwise Bc8 falls) 39.Qxd6 is winning.
C. 35...f4 36.Nxf6+ Kg6 (Kg7? 37.Nh5+ Kg6 38.Qf3) 37.Ne8+! Rxe8 38.Bxe8+ wins a rook.
That should do it. Time for review...
|Oct-16-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Line C was the line I had some difficulty finding and this turns out to be the game line, with a slight deviation by Furman.|
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