< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Nov-17-08|| ||whiteshark: "<11.Nfd2? Nxf2! 12.Kxf2> (better was 12.Kf1)" Dvoretsky|
Full annotation: http://www.chesscafe.com/text/dvore...
|Jan-18-14|| ||al wazir: I went with 15...Rf2+ 16. Kg1 (16. Kh1 Rxh2+) gxh2+. White's ♔ is surrounded by a cordon of enemy troops; something good for black is bound to happen.|
|Jan-18-14|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: Best play as I see it is
15 ... Bh3+
16 Kh1 g2+
17 Kxg2 Bxe1
Black is ahead the exchange at that point, and also has an ongoing attack.
If White accepts the sacrifice, Black forces mate or else overwhelming material advantage, starting with:
15 ... Bh3+
16 Kxh3 Qd7+
The two main lines are:
17 Kg2 Rf2+
18 Kg1/Kh1 Qh3
19 Nf1 Rxf1+
20 Rxf1 Qxh2#
17 Kxh4 Rf4+, followed by 18 ... Qg4#
The last try for White is:
17 Bf5 Rxf5
18 Kg4 Rf6+
19 Kh5 Rh6#
Alternate 18th or 19th moves for White either transpose in essence to one of the previous lines, or else leave Black with a massive material advantage.
|Jan-18-14|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: Oh well; I overlooked that after 17 ... Bxe1, White is in position for a delayed acceptance of the h3 bishop, and hence Black needs to interpolate 17 ... Qd6.|
Hopefully that was my principal error.
|Jan-18-14|| ||mel gibson: My computer agreed with 15....Bh3+.
However I tried Rf2+ & it gave a checkmate by move 39 for a black win.
The move 15 ....Bh3+ didn't give a checkmate till move 82!
(Used DR4 64 bit on i7 quad, 5 seconds per move)
|Jan-18-14|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: <al wazir> The "something good must happen" theory has problems against the threat of Qxd5+, forcing an exchange of queens. White also has pretty good numbers defending f1, as well as the h1 long diagonal. |
Hence the alternative of Bh3+, which in one main line serves to replace the bishop with the queen for added attacking firepower.
|Jan-18-14|| ||patzer2: <al wazir: I went with 15...Rf2+ 16. Kg1 (16. Kh1 Rxh2+) gxh2+. White's K is surrounded by a cordon of enemy troops; something good for black is bound to happen.> So did I. Frtiz 12 indicates both 15...Rf2+ and 15...Bh3+! are winning, with 15...Rf2+ being slightly stronger.|
Fritz's best line goes 15... Rf2+ 16. Kg1 (16. Kh1 Qf6! 17. Qxd5+ Kh8 18. Bg2 Bh3 19. Rf1 Bxg2+ 20. Qxg2 Rxg2 21. Rxf6 Rxh2+ 22. Kg1 Bxf6 ) 16... Kh8! (surprisingly stronger than our 16...gxh2+ ) 17. Qxd5 Qf6! 18. hxg3 Bxg3 19. Nf3 Bxf3 20. Bxf3 Rxf3 (-9.6 @ 20 depth on a dual core 2.1 GHZ Intel processor).
|Jan-18-14|| ||patzer2: <Cheapo by the Dozen: <al wazir> The "something good must happen" theory has problems against the threat of Qxd5+, forcing an exchange of queens. White also has pretty good numbers defending f1, as well as the h1 long diagonal.> After 15... Rf2+ 16. Kg1 Kh8! 17. Qxd5 Qf6! , the exchange of Queens is avoided and Black has sufficient pieces in play for a decisive attack on the exposed White King.|
|Jan-18-14|| ||morfishine: This one was hard for me to evaluate other than 15...gxh2 oddly seems stronger than the immediate check 15...Rf2+|
(1) <15...gxh2> 16.Bxd5+ Kh8 17.Rh1 Qf6 18.Ne4 Qf3+ 19.Kxh2 Qe2+ 20.Kg1 Rf1#
(2) <15...Rf2+> 16.Kg1 gxh2+ (not 15...Rxh2 17.Bxd5+ Kh8 18.Qxb7 Rb8 19.Qxc6 Qf8 20.Bf3) 17.Kh1 Qf6 18.Bxd5+ Kh8 19.Qxb7 Rf8 20.Qxc6 Qf4
PM: I looked briefly at 15...Bh3+ but thought it was unnecessary; Lobo makes it look so smooth and easy
|Jan-18-14|| ||Penguincw: Ouch. Wrong move order.|
|Jan-18-14|| ||PJs Studio: This is a difficult to see king hunting example. Frustrated me. Most can't see that Bishop sacrifice only clears the line for the queen to use the diagonal with tempo. |
15 ... Bh3+ 16 Kxh3 Qd7+ 17 Kg2 Rf2+ 18 Kh1 Qh3 19 Nf1 Rxf1+ 20 Rxf1 and mate next.
|Jan-18-14|| ||RandomVisitor: White was doing ok up until 10...0-0 when perhaps something like 11.Nbd2 would prevent the immediate black attack.|
|Jan-18-14|| ||RandomVisitor: 15...Kh8 also seems to work:
[-3.73] d=18 15...Kh8 16.Qxd5 Rf2+ 17.Kh1 Rxh2+ 18.Kg1 Qf6 19.Bf3 Rf8 20.Qe4 h5 21.Rf1 Rf2
|Jan-18-14|| ||agb2002: Black has two pawns for a knight.
White threatens 16.B(Q)xd5+.
Black can try to incorporate the queen into the attack with tempo with 15... Bh3+:
A) 16.Kxh3 Qd7+
A.1) 17.Kxh4 Rf4+ and 18... Qg4#.
A.2) 17.Kg2 Rf2+ 18.Kg(h)1 Qh3 and mate soon, for example 19.Nf1 Rxf1+ 20.Rxf1 Qxh2#.
A.3) 17.Bf5+ Qxf5+
A.3.a) 18.Kg2 Qf2+ 19.Kh3 Qxh2+ 20.Kg4 h5+ 21.Kxh5 Be7+ and mate next.
A.3.b) 18.Kxh4 g5+ 19.Kxg3 (19.Kh5 Qh3+ 20.Kxg5 Rf5#) 19... Qf2+ 20.Kh3 (20.Kg4 Qh4#) 20... Qh4+ 21.Kg2 Rf2+ and 22.Qxh2#.
B) 16.Kh1 g2+ 17.Bxg2 (17.Kg1 Bf2#) 17... Bxg2+
B.1) 18.Kxg2 Qg5+ followed by 19... Bxe1 - + [R+P vs N] and attack.
B.2) 18.Kg1 Bxe1 19.Kxg2 Rf2+ followed by Qg5 looks winning.
C) 16.Kg1 gxh2+ 17.Kxh2 (17.Kh1 Bxe1 - +) 17... Qd6+ 18.Kh1 (18.Kxh3 Qg3#; 18.Kg1 Qg3+ 19.Kh1 Qxe1+ 20.Kh2 Qg3+ 21.Kh1 Rf2 - +) 18... Bxe1 - + [R+2P vs N].
The alternative 15... Rf2+ 16.Kg1 gxh2+ 17.Kh1 looks much weaker.
|Jan-18-14|| ||Jimfromprovidence: I think that 15...Qf6 might also work, seeing 16 Rf1 Qh6.|
click for larger view
The threat is 17...Bg5, seeing 18...Qxh2#.
I'm still working on it.
|Jan-18-14|| ||abuzic: 15...Rf2+
|Jan-18-14|| ||Patriot: Material: White is down 2 pawns for a piece. Black has an aggressive attack while half of white's pieces have never moved.|
White may be threatening 16.Qxd5+ in order to trade off the most potentially dangerous piece.
Here, I would play 15...Rf2+ without much thought in a short time control. 16.Kh1 Rxh2+ 17.Kg1 Qf6 or 16.Kg1 gxh2+ 17.Kh1 Qf6.
|Jan-18-14|| ||mel gibson: I did some extra processing:
15.... Bh3+ gives a score of +4.57 for black.
15.... Rf2+ gives a score of +7.72.
Depth 18 287,668,633 board positions.
Took 10 minutes on my i7 quad core.
15....Rf2+ was my choice which I saw in under 5 seconds.
It looked more logical -
a Rook right in the face of the King
& a Pawn to threaten a new Queen.
|Jan-18-14|| ||JG27Pyth: That's quite an attacking game, sheesh...|
|Apr-08-14|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <mel> Despite your computations, I would suggest that - while both moves will win - the correct one is 15...Bh3+!!|
I definitely prefer that one. Chess should NOT just be about computer-driven observations only ... things like content, beauty, and chess artistry should mean something as well. (ALSO - it is one MONSTER of a shocking and a surprising move!!!!!!!)
|Apr-08-14|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I have started a web page on this game, however, it is not (yet) finished. |
The video has been completed:
|Apr-08-14|| ||john barleycorn: The threat is stronger than its execution as per Nimzowitsch.|
|Apr-10-14|| ||LIFE Master AJ: http://www.ajschess.com/lifemastera...|
(My web page for this game. I am doing something I have done a few times before - on this website. The web page is NOT yet finished. However, if you want to see what the FORMATTING stage looks like in action ... you can watch the page grow and change ... until it is finished.)
|Apr-18-14|| ||LIFE Master AJ: The web page - the link is above - is finished.|
|Apr-19-14|| ||john barleycorn: |
When this game was played
11.Nbd2! Kh8 12.h3! was known from
Karpov vs Korchnoi, 1974
In fact, the following position with black to move
is pretty standard since 1889:
click for larger view
One continuation was: black used to move Kh8 and white took on b7. See:
Gunsberg vs Max Weiss, 1889
Showalter vs Pillsbury, 1904
In Capablanca vs B Kostic, 1919
Capablanca played 12.Nf1 and commented:
<I could not quite make up my mind as to whether I should play QxKtP and risk the attack to which I thought there would be a good defence, or to play as I did, Kt-B, which also subjected me to an attack, but of a different sort, and where my opponent would not have the benefit of his extraordinary memory...>
After 12....Qd7 he wrote:
<The only way to continue the attack would be: 12...BxKt 13.gf3 Nxf2 14. KxNf2 Bh4+ 15.Ng3 f4>
Interesting, isn't it?
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