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Jun-06-25 | | stone free or die: I wonder if I ever encountered <The Household Chess Magazine> before, and who are the people behind it. It has some annotations by Blackburne, so they were knowledgeably connected to the chess world. |
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Jun-06-25 | | stone free or die: The AI synopsis of the magazine:
<"The Household Chess Magazine" was a British chess magazine published in 1865. It was a quarterly publication that included chess riddles, charades, and other chess-related content. The magazine was published for only three issues, from January to March 1865. Here's a more detailed look:
Publication Details: It was published in Manchester, England, in 1865. > |
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Jun-06-25
 | | jnpope: <JoergWalter: Was this game ever played? What is the source of this game? All I find is an analysis in the "Neue Berliner Schachzeitung" from january 1864> Confirmed, it shows up as analysis in an article on the Evans Gambit by B. v. Guretsky-Cornitz, in the <Neue Berliner Schachzeitung>, v1 n1, January 1864, p2, after White's 16.Qd2. Is there a source giving this game earlier than January 1864? Or did someone hoodwink the <Household Chess Magazine> a little over a year later? |
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Jun-06-25 | | stone free or die: Not sure why putting a link to the source is soooo difficult: <Confirmed, it shows up as analysis in an article on the Evans Gambit by B. v. Guretsky-Cornitz, in the <Neue Berliner Schachzeitung>, v1 n1, January 1864, p2, after White's 16.Qd2.> https://books.google.com/books?id=P... In case one is having trouble finding a link to a source a quick perusal here might prove useful: http://www.chessarch.com/library/in... |
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Jun-06-25
 | | jnpope: <<The Household Chess Magazine>, 31 March 1865> I wonder if the magazine published the game as an April Fools joke and they never got a chance to reveal it due to the premature demise of the title? |
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Jun-06-25 | | stone free or die: OK, I read through the analysis. It's my opinion that, although it is the exact moves of this game, it doesn't preclude the analysis being based on this game itself. So the <Chess Household Magazine> isn't contradicted to be a fake, necessarily. * * * * *
[Detailed commentary]
On White's move 7 of the ML (main line) he says this: 7.d2-d4
<In the handbook by vd Lasa, see third edition, Book I, Opening 1, Section VII, § 9,> On Black's move 9 of the ML:
9...d7-d5
<The following analysis is intended to demonstrate that even after the often applied> Which obviously implies he's following practice. On Black's move 11 he gives:
<In most games the attack continues with 11) f6-g7:, but the move suggested above by J. Löwenthal is decidedly stronger.> 11...Ke8-f8
Again, he's following practice, though point out the most common line isn't the one identified as originating with Lowenthal (or should that be popularized?). Then on Black's move 16 we diverge from the ML with the game's 16...Qg4 vs the ML's 16...h7-h6. The text comments on Black's 16th move:
<Black doesn't have a wide choice of moves.> And he presents the finish of this game as one of the bad alternatives. But note, after 16...Qg4 17.Qc3+, the game continuation isn't exactly an analysis line, as Black can avoid the mate with 17...Bd4. A proper analysis would note this, because, though Black is clearly lost, he isn't mated. So I think the analysis (which is really the ML discussion) used a flashy real game and glossed over the details of a side continuation (which could have been taken from practice). Of course, I don't know with certainty - but it seems clear to me that the analysis is our earliest publication of the moves, but isn't necessarily the primary source of them. |
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Jun-06-25
 | | Sally Simpson: The Household Chess Magazine claim their 1833 game was the first Evans appears to be wrong. Lewis 'Chess Lessons' (published 1832) has this game W D Evans vs Brandreth, 1827 it is game No.30 (page 370) This thread's game does not appear in the Lewis book despite Lewis saying the games and analysis came from his good friend W..D. Evans of Milford. However this game does W D Evans vs McDonnell, 1827 game 34 (page 377) https://books.google.co.uk/books/ab... |
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Jun-06-25
 | | jnpope: <Not sure why putting a link to the source is soooo difficult> I've told you before, I'm not going out of my way to create links for you. I search my local files for things and then cite where I've found it. You expect me to then locate an online version of my sources for you? I think the Brits have a phrase for that: Sod off! |
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Jun-06-25
 | | Sally Simpson: <Hi Stone Free> I've put links on my last post, they all appear to work. I always add links, I love linking, linking is my game, I'm the Link King of Linkers in Linkland. PS:
We Brits are more of a polite nature. The phrase you want, and I'm sure your mini-rant does not apply to me is; 'Please Sod Off!' |
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Jun-06-25 | | stone free or die: <<jn> I think the Brits have a phrase for that: Sod off!> Friendly fellow, ain't he?!?
<jn> and I have an understanding about many things, but not this. I will offer <jn> some "constructive" advice. Let's start here - adding links, though I would personally appreciate them, would be of benefit to all your readers, and not just me. Secondly, I understand that you don't want (or are too lazy?) to do the extra step of adding a link when working from your local sources. But consider this - you do put in the effort to laboriously type out the ref, e.g. <<The Household Chess Magazine>, 31 March 1865, p40 (undoubtedly Warner's source) gives the game as Evans-McDonnell and states:> I'll just say that sometimes it's quicker to just use the online link - which also allows others to quickly consult the original material (which, in turn, I think is the idea of citing the original material in the first place). . |
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Jun-06-25 | | stone free or die: <(or are too lazy?)> this is clearly meant ironically. * * * *
<<Sally> We Brits are more of a polite nature. The phrase you want, and I'm sure your mini-rant does not apply to me is; 'Please Sod Off!'> I once had a close British friend, a member of the Royal Society today, who repeatedly informed me that <"The British are a war-like people"> I guess I'll have to amend that to the following: <"The British are a polite, war-like people"> Meanwhile, over on <Quora>...
<No. We're not warlike. War is just something we're good at. Have been for many years and still are now.> And on <Reddit>...
<The British are not a warlike people. They're good at revenue generation and budgeting for weapons development.> |
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Jun-06-25
 | | Sally Simpson: <Hi Stone Free> War. I'll paraphrase Einstein on this one. 'WW3 will be over quite quick. WW4 will be fought with bows and arrows.' Though I think he may be wrong. Global Warming!
WW4 will be fought with underwater spear guns and trained dolphins with nukes strapped to their backs. Back on track. What are they going to do with this one. Make it NN v NN following analysis by NN from a game by Evans.
It's OK as it is but some slack-eyed weary hack will not notice the ' (probably analysis) bit and the thing will be unleashed in some future publication and I'm afraid to say here will be to blame. (also a pun on a spurious game...no...that has to be removed along with the names. In fact the whole thing should be tossed out and anyone who has it in the game collection shall be mocked.) |
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Jun-06-25 | | stone free or die: Well, I'm not convinced that the probably applies as far as the game is concerned. That was the point of my overly-detailed analysis. It definitely shows up in analysis - but as a sideline, which means it was clearly marked off as original analysis. As we know, analysis blends old and new, often citing real games. <jn> did a nice bit of research, getting us back to 1865. The challenge now is to find a source pre-dating Guretsky-Cornitz's piece. |
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Jun-06-25
 | | jnpope: Well as <z> pointed out, the annotation giving this line in the article doesn't feel like analysis, so perhaps B. v. Guretsky-Cornitz had a source for that line/game. The <Household Chess Magazine> dated it to 1833, in Brugge, and gives Evans-McDonnell. That's a lot of specifics to conjure up out of thin air (if not an April Fools prank), so perhaps some of the info is accurate. Evans could have been in Brugge in 1833 and played his gambit against someone, probably not McDonnell, but perhaps a "Mr. M" that was conflated into McDonnell; and is most definitely not the first Evans Gambit if played in 1833. Being that we do have a source from 1865 that gives Evans-McDonnell I'm hesitant to delete or alter this game (other than adding an updated source-tag). If the game was played in Brugge in 1833 I wonder if it circulated in the continental press and that's how B. v. Guretsky-Cornitz found it for his 1864 article? |
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Jun-08-25
 | | jnpope: Well, here's another clue for us.
In <Eminent Victorian Chess Players: Ten Biographies>, p331, Harding states: "This game is in Chessbase's Mega Database 2011 as an Evans-A. McDonnell encounter from 1829 but that cannot be right. Many years ago it was seen in a German monograph on the gambit, supposedly played by Evans against G. A. MacDonnell. No primary source for the score has been found. However, at least one game with the gambit was definitely played between Captain Evans and the Rev. George MacDonnell, apparently in the mid-1850s and probably at Kling's Chess Rooms. MacDonnell was White; he mentions their meeting in his <Knights and Kings> book on page 131 but without giving the moves." For <z>'s benefit (as I didn't have <Knights and Kings> in my digital archives):
https://books.google.com/books?id=_... Also, what German monograph Harding!?! |
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Jun-08-25
 | | jnpope: I'll expand my search for games published between the 1850s and 1863 involving:
G. A. MacDonnell vs Evans
Mars vs Evans
Hiber vs Evans
:-P |
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Jun-08-25 | | stone free or die: <<jn> Also, what German monograph Harding!?!> Ya know, I was wondering the same... (might he be referring to the analysis article previously discussed?) |
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Jun-08-25
 | | jnpope: I thought that too, but Harding says <Many years ago it was seen in a German monograph on the gambit, supposedly played by Evans against G. A. MacDonnell.> Which seems to imply this monograph attributed it to Evans vs G. A. MacDonnell and as the B. v. Guretsky-Cornitz article makes no mention of them I'm thinking the monograph is some other document. If this monograph pre-dates the article then we have an earlier source; if it's from a later time period then we got bupkis and will be left wondering how the monograph identified it being MacDonnell and not McDonnell (unless the monograph gave sources; dare to dream). |
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Jun-08-25
 | | jnpope: Found the following in the <Chess Player's Chronicle>, v4 n5, May 1862, p154:
G MacDonnell vs Mackenzie, 1862
Which gets us to the same position after move 13...Na5. What makes this game interesting is that it definitely involved George MacDonnell. I need to carefully check to see if there was analysis of this position given between the publication of this game and before the 1864 article on the Evans. |
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Jun-08-25
 | | jnpope: <Morphy's Games>, Appleton Edition, 1860, New York, pp363-364: In an analysis of this opening, which Mr. Löwenthal is preparing, the following continuation of the attack is proposed, and, as will be seen, gives White a fine attack. [1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Bc5 6.O-O Nf6 7.d4 exd4 8.cxd4 Bb6 9.e5 d5 10.exf6 dxc4] 11.Re1+ Kf8 12.Ba3+ Kg8 13.d5, and White's game is preferable. ---
Which is one move shy of 13...Na5 appearing in print (nearly two years prior to G MacDonnell vs Mackenzie, 1862 and roughly four years prior to the von Guretsky-Cornitz article). Does anyone know if Löwenthal ever published his analysis of this line in the Evans Gambit? |
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Jun-08-25
 | | jnpope: The same note found in <Morphy's Games>, Appleton Edition, 1860, New York, pp363-364, was also given verbatim by Löwenthal in the London <Era>, 1858.03.21, p13, so apparently Löwenthal had been working on his analysis of the Evans for a few years (again, did it ever get published?). Being that the 11.Re1+ Kf8 12.Ba3+ Kg8 13.d5 line appears to be analysis by Löwenthal it seems less likely to me as having been a game played between Captain Evans and either of the "M'Donnells" (Alexander McDonnell or G. A. MacDonnell). |
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Jun-08-25 | | stone free or die: From above:
<Again, he's following practice, though point out the most common line isn't the one identified as originating with Lowenthal (or should that be popularized?).> Don't forget the <popularized> option. We've had lots of other examples of opening lines which had games predating the analysis literature, where the analysis author's name is attached over the originator's. |
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Jun-09-25
 | | jnpope: The timeline so far:
<1858.03.22> Analysis by Lowenthal:
11.Re1+ Kf8 12.Ba3+ Kg8 13.d5
<1862.04.22> The game G MacDonnell vs Mackenzie, 1862 is played:
11.Re1+ Kf8 12.Ba3+ Kg8 13.d5 Na5 14.fxg7 Kxg7 15.Bb2+ f6 16.Nc3 Bf5 17.Nd4 Bxd4 18.Qxd4 Qd7 19.Ne4 Rhe8 20.Qxf6+ and mates in two.
<1864.01> Line given by B. v. Guretsky-Cornitz
11.Re1+ Kf8 12.Ba3+ Kg8 13.d5 Na5 14.Be7 Qd7 15.fxg7 Kxg7 16.Qd2 Qg4 17.Qc3+ Kg8 18.Qxh8+ Kxh8 19.Bf6+ Kg8 20.Re8# 1-0
<1865.03.31> "Household Chess Magazine" prints W D Evans vs McDonnell, 1829
11.Re1+ Kf8 12.Ba3+ Kg8 13.d5 Na5 14.Be7 Qd7 15.fxg7 Kxg7 16.Qd2 Qg4 17.Qc3+ Kg8 18.Qxh8+ Kxh8 19.Bf6+ Kg8 20.Re8# 1-0
<2014> Harding writes:
Many years ago it (W D Evans vs McDonnell, 1829) was seen in a German monograph on the gambit, supposedly played by Evans against G. A. MacDonnell.
---
The open questions for me are:
Did Lowenthal publish more on this line after 1858/1860 including the Guretsky-Cornitz line?
Did Guretsky-Cornitz originate the above line or was it taken from an earlier source (if so which)? Was it analysis showing an "improvement" on the G MacDonnell vs Mackenzie, 1862 game?
Did the <Household Chess Magazine> take Guretsky-Cornitz's line and turn it into an April Fools game?
Is the entire thing a case of mistaken identity and the game is really Evans-G. A. MacDonnell? Can we find this monograph mentioned by Harding?
The answers to any of these questions may be the clue into solving this mystery. |
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Jun-09-25 | | stone free or die: A good summary.
Of course, if memory serves me, shouldn't the <Household Chess Magazine> item note that it attributed the <Evan's Gambit> debut as in 1833? And there should always be a final question asking whether all the proper questions have been asked. E.g. I found a second, even earlier source indicating the <Evan's Gambit> was debuted in (about) 1833. This source is from Sept 21, 1844, almost within a decade of the claim: <EASY LESSONS IN CHESS.
XXIV.
THE EVANS GAMBIT.
THIS highly ingenious variation of the King's Knight's Game was introduced to the chess world about the year 1833, by Captain W. D. Evans of Milford, and soon became celebrated for the novelty of its situations, and the opportunities afforded for bold and brilliant play.> https://books.google.com/books?id=j... |
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Jun-09-25
 | | jnpope: The claims made in the <Household Chess Magazine> are a whole other issue. The entire article makes one skeptical, i.e. the date of 1833, the location of Brugge, the participants being Evans and McDonnell, this being the <first game on record of the "Evans" gambit>. But that's more of an aside. The key task for me is to find the earliest published version of this analysis/line/game. |
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