< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Nov-16-10|| ||kevin86: My try was Nf3 threatening mate in two ways,but a white rook move on the second ranks allows the king to escape. A win will come,but much more slowly.|
|Nov-16-10|| ||dzechiel: <Nullifidian: ... "Misses" implies that Ivanov didn't see it, but all we know from this game is that Black didn't play it. When a great chess player sees two possible mates, and one is more aesthetically pleasing than the other, then aesthetics often trumps other considerations, even if it makes the mate slightly longer. Here it was a safe choice, because there's no way the king can escape the mating net no matter which move order Ivanov played.>|
<Nullifidian> is quite correct here. Aesthetics aside, when you see a four move forced mate, in which your opponent has NO choice in any of his moves, you play towards that, rather than look for a three move mate where your opponent has some freedom in his replies that leave you opportunity to make a mistake.
I realize that the shorter mate works here, but I think any player will choose certainty over expediency.
|Nov-16-10|| ||Brandon plays: This was actually a bit tricky. It seems that in chess things are really obvious once you stumble upon the right answer. I think I need to be a little bit more methodical. It took me about 4 minutes to see that it is simply just Qh1+.|
|Nov-16-10|| ||Once: <Stormbringer> You are quite right. It turns out that the d2-h3 diagonal has been banned by the European Union because it is too bendy. In much the same way they prohibited straight bananas because they were insufficiently bendy...|
|Nov-16-10|| ||OBIT: <dzechiel>Eh, saying 21...Nf3+ is less certain than 21...Qh2+ is a stretch, IMO. After 21...Nf3+, White has only three legal replies. Two of them allow mate in one, and the third is a routine mate in two. I'd expect any 1400 player to calculate it out correctly, so I can't see a GM stumbling on it.|
Frankly, I think Ivanov played 21...Qh2+ because that's what he saw first. We all do that. If we see a forced mate, we think "oh boy, mate" and don't bother to look for anything else. Not that this is a big deal - as many chessplayers are fond of saying, "a mate is a mate".
|Nov-16-10|| ||Domdaniel: 1...Qh1+ wins. I think 1...Bf3 may also work, but it's trickier.|
Time, as it were, to check ...
|Nov-16-10|| ||ChessGeezer: I am a little unclear if Nf3 is an answer worth 2 points on the <Al Wazir> scale. That was my answer. I was thinking 22... Nf3 (not check) 23 Bxf3 Qg1+ 24 Kxg1 Bxf3 25 any move Rh1#. Does that count? If so, I have a total of 3 points so far this week. |
I completely missed Qh1+.
|Nov-16-10|| ||CapablancaFan122: Reminds me of A Steinkuehler vs Blackburne, 1863|
As Blackburne would say, it is a "clean" mate.
|Nov-16-10|| ||TrollKing: I played in the Kings Island Open this past weekend. GM Ivanov KRUSHED GM Mark Paragua in the last round.|
I was trying to follow the game but I had my own to worry about.
I hope they publish that game.
GM Ivanov was down a piece (Bishop) but had the two strongest Knights I've ever seen.
|Nov-16-10|| ||outsider: i went for Qg1+ Kg1 Nf3+ with the mate in 3. so i got it even longer than mr. ivanov:)|
|Nov-16-10|| ||VincentL: "Easy"
The move I see straight away is 22....Nf3.
If 23. Bxf3 Qg1+ ! 24. Kxg1 Bxf3 and white cannot prevent 25. Rh1 mate
If 23. Re3 Qg1+ 24. Ke2 Nd4+ (double check) 24. Kd2 Bxd1 winning the queen, and mating soon.
If 23. Some other move Qf1 mate.
|Nov-16-10|| ||wals: One step forward, two steps backward.
Mental note, make sure that you take in all of the board.
depth: 17 : 6 min :
(-1.49):11.Ne4. Best, b4, -0.92.
depth: 17 : 5 min :
(-2.94):12.hxg3. Best, N4xg3, -1.49.
depth: 20 : 17 min :
(-1.29):12...f6. Best, Bh3, -2.94.
depth: 15 : 6 min :
(-2.30):15.b4. Best, N2c3, -1.62.
depth: 16 : 5 min :
(-8.144):17.N2c3. Best, Nd6+, -3.75.
depth: 16 : 4 min :
(-15.93):20.Be4. Best, Kf1, -9.11.
20...Qh5, -10.02, gave White a break, but,21.Re2, -#3/4, (Kf1), was the
final straw and White resigned move 23.
|Nov-16-10|| ||VincentL: Hahah !
Almost every other poster has 22.....Qh1+. But I think my lines win as well - albeit the 24, Ke2 line takes longer.
|Nov-16-10|| ||VincentL: It seems that <jaapvo>, <OBIT> and others have already had the discussion regarding 22.... Nf3, and have shown that it also works.|
So I think I can claim the "deux points" today.
|Nov-16-10|| ||cyclon: 22. -Qh1+ 23. Bxh1 Rxh1+ 24. Kg2 Bf3X. ( CUFFLINKS )|
|Nov-16-10|| ||muralman: Missed it.... but I was never much good with the easy puzzles.|
|Nov-16-10|| ||WhiteRook48: 22...Qh1+ 23 Bxh1 Rxh1+ 24 Kg2 Bf3 kill|
|Nov-16-10|| ||nateinstein: I just played Ivanov twice in the same tournament in a recent event! Not fun! He is still playing considerably well.|
|Nov-16-10|| ||drleper: <OBIT> If I was playing this game and I had seen that both 21...Nf3+ and 21...Qh2+ lead to mate, I'd play Qh2+ for sure.|
The mating position after Qh2+ is far more attractive and unusual, the N, B, and R work together beautifully. The other way is a move faster, but not as aesthetically pleasing (just the Q mating on back rank).
|Nov-16-10|| ||TheBish: K Landa vs A Ivanov, 1985|
Black to play (22...?) "Easy"
I think this could have easily been a Wednesday problem. Maybe because I spent too much time looking for a mating net, when none exists! Also, for some reason I didn't notice the open h-file for the h8 rook for half an eternity.
22...Qh1+! 23. Bxh1 Rxh1+ 24. Kg2
So far, so forced.
24...Rxd1 25. Nxd1 Bxe2
Black has won a bishop.
|Nov-17-10|| ||turbo231: Missed it, great puzzle. I didn't even notice that rook at h8! It would help if I looked at all the pieces on the board.|
|Nov-18-10|| ||David2009: Rewind to the position after 9...0-0-0:
click for larger view
(K Landa vs A Ivanov, 1985 White 10?) I have been trying unsuccessfully to do survive as White in this position, playing against Crafty EGT (link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... )
Cany anyone suggest a defence?
|Nov-19-10|| ||Cardinal Fang: 'Aesthetically pleasing' starts with the little kid who piles Queens up on the eighth rank instead of mating his hapless opponent quickly. It tells you far more about the kid than it does about his ability at chess.|
|Nov-21-10|| ||Nullifidian: <Cardinal Fang> I ask this in all sincerity: Why are you here? I cannot conceive of your reason for being on a chess site devoted to studying historical games if you are entirely dead to the aesthetic pleasure of a beautiful mate, novel tactic, etc.|
If I had the soulless attitude you have, then playing chess would become an onerous duty, not a pleasurable search for beauty in the heart of chess. I study these "Old Masters" for the same reason I study the Old Masters of painting and sculpture.
|Jan-18-11|| ||Cardinal Fang: <Nullifidian> Because I love chess. In fact, my love for the game far outweighs the fact that I can't stand a lot of the people who play it. Happily CG has an ignore button.|
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