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Gioachino Greco vs NN
Miscellaneous Game (1620), ?, rd 2
Italian Game: Classical. Greco Gambit Greco Variation (C54)  ·  1-0


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-19-07  zb2cr: <Dr. J>,

In response to the possible 18. ... Qf6, I believe that the combination of my move (20. Qf7) with your idea (Bg5) yields a slightly faster mate.

The line would be:

18. ... Qf6; 19. Rxf6+, Ke7; 20. Qf7+, Kd8; 21. Bg5. The threatened discovered check leaves Black defenseless.

21. ... Re8; 22. Re6+, Bf6; 23. Bxf6, Re7; 24. Qxe7#.

21. ... c6; 22. Rxc6+, Bf6; 23. Bxf6#.

21. ... Rf8; 22. Qxf8+, Bxf8; 23. Rxf8#.
21. ... d6 yields 22. Rxd6# (due to the double check).

21. ... Bxf6; 22. Bxf6#.

21. ... gxh5 and 21. ... Bf8 are both irrelevant to the threat. In both cases, 22. Re6+ settles Black's hash.

Nov-19-07  xrt999: < evenua: Wow, it's Monday and there isn't any Queen sac! I'm impressed! :P>

here you go:

18. Qf3+ Kg8
19. Qd5+ Kf8
20. Rf5+ Qf6
21. Rxf6+ Ke8
22. Re1+ Kd8
23. Bg5 c6
24. Rf8+ Kc7
25. Bf4+ Be5
26. Bxe5+ Kb6
27. Rb1+ Ka6
28. Qc4+ b5
29. Be2 bxc4
30. Bxc4+ Ka5
31. Bc3+ Ka4
32. Rb4+ Ka3
33. Rb3+ Ka4
34. Bb5+ cxb5
35. Rf4+ b4
36. Rfxb4+ Ka5
37. Ra3# 1-0


Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: 18...Qf6 is no better for Black than gxf5. After White plays 18. Rf5+, there is no good move for Black.

Don't you wish there were some way to see how Greco would play against a named, high-quality opponent OTB? I'd pay to see Greco v. Morphy...

Nov-19-07  JG27Pyth: I like this line:

18. Rf5+ Qf6
19. Qc3! and black's best response, Kf7 leads to mate in 9. Admittedly 18...Qf6 is hopeless for black no matter how you slice it.

This didn't seem like a "Very Easy" problem to me... seems more like a solid regular "Easy" to me.

Premium Chessgames Member
  benveniste: Another queen sac, followed by a ++ mate:

18. Rf5+ Qf6
19. Rxf6+ Ke7
20. Qe3+ Kd8
21. Be5 Re8
22. Qe8+ Kxe8
23. Re1+ Kd8
24. Rf8++#

Nov-19-07  neveramaster: I am glad to see it took a couple of other people a little while to the solution. Good puzzle for a Monday.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I saw this one in a New York second. If blacks declines the sac-the rooks and queen will mate him very soon.

A twist for a Monday puzzle-a ROOK sacrifice.

Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: LOL easy
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: <willyfly> It sounds like you are acting like an early chess computer. The ROBOT on "Lost in Space" had a constant response to a move he didn't like-"That does not compute!".
Nov-19-07  willyfly: Once again we are up against the imfamous NN. At move 18 White's Queenside has been decimated. But despite appearances, White is only down by two ♙s and has a tremendous lead in developement. You could almost say Black was down by a ♖ and a ♗ since those pieces are currently trapped behind thier own ♙s and are practically useless.

Since it is Monday I'm looking for a ♕ sac.

18 ♕f7+ and Black has no choice
19 ♖f5+ and now the ♔ has four options

A) 19...♔g8
B) 19...♔e8
C) 19...♔e7
D) 19...♔e6

After exploring each of these 3 or 4 moves out I have concluded this is not the solution. Then I notice 19...♗f6 and it looks like Black has too many options for the sac to work

So how about
18 ♗xg7+ and Black has but one responce
18...♔xg7 then
19 ♕c3 or 19 ♕e3 and I've spent too much time on this and don't seem to be getting anywhere. I'm sure the solution to this is very simple but I haven't found it. I am disgraced for sure - but what the... wait a minute - how about

18 ♖fe1 but then White will lose one of the ♗s - okey I've had enough.

simple... so simple...

Nov-19-07  willyfly: <kevin86> your responce to my post comes before my post - that too does not compute - but I had to delete it and repost to correct some typos
Nov-19-07  Duque Roquero: <I'd pay to see Greco v. Morphy...> Me too, I bet Morphy would've beaten Greco in under 20 moves.
Premium Chessgames Member
  amadeus: Rf5, I love Monday.

Qf3 also works. 18.Qf3+ Kg8 19.Qd5+ Kf8 20.Rf5+ Ke7 21.Re1+

<xrt>, after c6, Rxc6+ (discovered check) is a killer.

Nov-19-07  Crowaholic: <zb2cr: 21. Re6, dxe6; 22. Bg5+, Bf6; 23. Bxf6#.>

It seems to me that 21. Re6 c6 allows Black to delay the mate significantly. I had also looked at 21. Bg5, mostly because it reminded me of a chess miniature I had derived from

Napoleon Bonaparte vs General Bertrand, 1814

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 Nxd4 4. Nxd4 exd4 5. Bc4 Bc5 6. c3 Qe7 7. O-O Qe5 8. f4 dxc3+ 9. Kh1 cxb2 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7?? (deviation from the original game) 11. fxe5+ Ke8 12. Qd5 bxa1=Q? (bxc1=Q allows Black to survive a little longer) 13. Qf7+ Kd8 14. Bg5+ Nf6 15. Rxf6! (Black's back rank threat is not real: ..Qxb1+ 16. Rf1+ Be7 17. Bxe7#) Qxe5 (note ..c6 16. Rxc6+) 16. Qf8+! Qe8 17. Rd6#

and found no refutation (in terms of delaying the inevitable).

Nov-19-07  Madman99X: Poor NN always get beaten on.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: Was it any of these?

Ni Nielsen
NINOV, Nikolai
NIKOLIC, Nebojsa

Nov-19-07  unferth: <playground player: Don't you wish there were some way to see how Greco would play against a named, high-quality opponent OTB? I'd pay to see Greco v. Morphy...>

good lord ... I doubt Greco would win a class B section at a modern weekend open. Morphy would eviscerate him ... and Morphy would get smoked by a modern IM.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: Yeah, well, probably every guy with a masters in physics knows more than Newton ever did. Doesn't affect his stature.
Nov-19-07  zb2cr: <Crowaholic>,

I had corrected myself later, in a post responding to <Dr. J>. Good catch on your part, thanks.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: Here's some analysis with the Opening Explorer and Fritz 8.

<1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5>

The main alternative is 3. Nf6, entering the Two Knights defense.

<4. c3>

This enters the Giuoco Piano. Two alternatives worth considering are 4. b4 (Evans Gambit) and 4. d3 ( a quiet but popular line of the Guico Piano).

<4...Nf6 5. d4>

The modern preference is 4. d3 as in
Bologan vs Kasimdzhanov, 2007.

<5...exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nc3>

The popular alternative is 7. Bd2 as in
Kasparov vs Gabdrakhmanov, 1977.

<7...Nxe4 8. O-O Nxc3>

Preferable for Black is the main line 8...Bxc3+!, as in M Bakalarz vs E Romanov, 2007.

<9. bxc3 Bxc3>

Worth considering is 9... d5 10.
cxb4 dxc4 11. Re1+ (11. d5 Ne7 =) 11... Ne7 =.

<10. Qb3 Bxd4?>

This is the losing move. Black can put up a fight and just might survive after either 10... Bxa1 11.Bxf7+ Kf8 12. Bg5 Nxd4! 13. Qa3+ Kxf7 14. Bxd8 Rxd8 15. Rxa1

or 10...d5 11. Bxd5 O-O 12. Bxf7+ Rxf7 13. Ng5 Qxg5 (13... Be6 14. Qxc3 Nxd4 15. Nxf7 Ne2+ 16. Kh1 Nxc3 17. Nxd8 Rxd8 18. Re1 Nxa2 19. Bg5 Rd6 20. Bf4 Rc6 21. h3 Nb4 22. Reb1 ) 14. Bxg5 Nxd4 15. Qd5 c6 16. Qd8+ Rf8 17. Qd6 Ne2+ 18. Kh1 .

<11. Bxf7+ Kf8 12. Bg5>

Stronger and winning immediately is 12. Bh5! d5
[12... Qe7 13. Bg5 Qe6 14. Rae1 (also winning is 14. Nxd4 )] 13. Nxd4 Nxd4 14. Qb4+ Qd6 15. Qxd4 .

<12... Bf6 13. Rae1 Ne7 14. Bh5 Ng6>

Putting up more resistance, but apparently still losing for Black is 14... d5 15. Re2 Bxg5 16. Nxg5 g6 17. Qb4 c5 18. Qxc5 Rg8 19. Rfe1 Rg7 20. Qd4 .

<15. Ne5 Nxe5 16. Rxe5 g6 17. Bh6+ Bg7 18. Rf5+ gxf5>

Also leading to quick mates are 18... Ke7 19. Bg5+ Bf6 20. Re1+ Kf8 21. Bh6# and 18... Ke8 19. Qf7#

<19. Qf7# 1-0>

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: The deflection/decoy 18. Rf5+! completes Greco's mating attack in this early history Giuoco Piano game for Yesterday's "easy" Monday puzzle.

The forced mate begins with 17. Bh6+ (mate-in-seven) and the game is won after 11. Bxf7+ .

Premium Chessgames Member
  HFlew: This seemed trickier than expected for a Monday. So I waited until Tuesday to try to solve it, and it worked! I solved it! :)
Dec-15-07  angslo: <HFlew: This seemed trickier than expected for a Monday. So I waited until Tuesday to try to solve it, and it worked! I solved it! :)> Now, that is what i call out of box thinking:)
Jan-27-08  wolfmaster: <HFlew> That was really funny!
Aug-05-11  squaresquat: Black needs to play 4...Bb6. The paradox
is that by losing a tempo moving the Bishop,black gains a tempo to maintain e5. The foundation of Greco's successful attack was his control of the center.
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