Members · Prefs · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

register now - it's free!
Gioachino Greco vs NN
Miscellaneous Game (1620)  ·  Italian Game: Classical. Greco Gambit Greco Variation (C54)  ·  1-0
To move:
Last move:

explore this opening
find similar games 78 more Greco/NN games
sac: 18.Rf5+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: To flip the board (so black is on the bottom) either press F or click on the e7 square.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with the default chess viewer, please see the Pgn4web Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-19-07  zb2cr: <Dr. J>,

In response to the possible 18. ... Qf6, I believe that the combination of my move (20. Qf7) with your idea (Bg5) yields a slightly faster mate.

The line would be:

18. ... Qf6; 19. Rxf6+, Ke7; 20. Qf7+, Kd8; 21. Bg5. The threatened discovered check leaves Black defenseless.

21. ... Re8; 22. Re6+, Bf6; 23. Bxf6, Re7; 24. Qxe7#.

21. ... c6; 22. Rxc6+, Bf6; 23. Bxf6#.

21. ... Rf8; 22. Qxf8+, Bxf8; 23. Rxf8#.
21. ... d6 yields 22. Rxd6# (due to the double check).

21. ... Bxf6; 22. Bxf6#.

21. ... gxh5 and 21. ... Bf8 are both irrelevant to the threat. In both cases, 22. Re6+ settles Black's hash.

Nov-19-07  xrt999: < evenua: Wow, it's Monday and there isn't any Queen sac! I'm impressed! :P>

here you go:

18. Qf3+ Kg8
19. Qd5+ Kf8
20. Rf5+ Qf6
21. Rxf6+ Ke8
22. Re1+ Kd8
23. Bg5 c6
24. Rf8+ Kc7
25. Bf4+ Be5
26. Bxe5+ Kb6
27. Rb1+ Ka6
28. Qc4+ b5
29. Be2 bxc4
30. Bxc4+ Ka5
31. Bc3+ Ka4
32. Rb4+ Ka3
33. Rb3+ Ka4
34. Bb5+ cxb5
35. Rf4+ b4
36. Rfxb4+ Ka5
37. Ra3# 1-0


Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: 18...Qf6 is no better for Black than gxf5. After White plays 18. Rf5+, there is no good move for Black.

Don't you wish there were some way to see how Greco would play against a named, high-quality opponent OTB? I'd pay to see Greco v. Morphy...

Nov-19-07  JG27Pyth: I like this line:

18. Rf5+ Qf6
19. Qc3! and black's best response, Kf7 leads to mate in 9. Admittedly 18...Qf6 is hopeless for black no matter how you slice it.

This didn't seem like a "Very Easy" problem to me... seems more like a solid regular "Easy" to me.

Premium Chessgames Member
  benveniste: Another queen sac, followed by a ++ mate:

18. Rf5+ Qf6
19. Rxf6+ Ke7
20. Qe3+ Kd8
21. Be5 Re8
22. Qe8+ Kxe8
23. Re1+ Kd8
24. Rf8++#

Nov-19-07  neveramaster: I am glad to see it took a couple of other people a little while to the solution. Good puzzle for a Monday.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I saw this one in a New York second. If blacks declines the sac-the rooks and queen will mate him very soon.

A twist for a Monday puzzle-a ROOK sacrifice.

Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: LOL easy
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: <willyfly> It sounds like you are acting like an early chess computer. The ROBOT on "Lost in Space" had a constant response to a move he didn't like-"That does not compute!".
Nov-19-07  willyfly: Once again we are up against the imfamous NN. At move 18 White's Queenside has been decimated. But despite appearances, White is only down by two ♙s and has a tremendous lead in developement. You could almost say Black was down by a ♖ and a ♗ since those pieces are currently trapped behind thier own ♙s and are practically useless.

Since it is Monday I'm looking for a ♕ sac.

18 ♕f7+ and Black has no choice
19 ♖f5+ and now the ♔ has four options

A) 19...♔g8
B) 19...♔e8
C) 19...♔e7
D) 19...♔e6

After exploring each of these 3 or 4 moves out I have concluded this is not the solution. Then I notice 19...♗f6 and it looks like Black has too many options for the sac to work

So how about
18 ♗xg7+ and Black has but one responce
18...♔xg7 then
19 ♕c3 or 19 ♕e3 and I've spent too much time on this and don't seem to be getting anywhere. I'm sure the solution to this is very simple but I haven't found it. I am disgraced for sure - but what the... wait a minute - how about

18 ♖fe1 but then White will lose one of the ♗s - okey I've had enough.

simple... so simple...

Nov-19-07  willyfly: <kevin86> your responce to my post comes before my post - that too does not compute - but I had to delete it and repost to correct some typos
Nov-19-07  Duque Roquero: <I'd pay to see Greco v. Morphy...> Me too, I bet Morphy would've beaten Greco in under 20 moves.
Premium Chessgames Member
  amadeus: Rf5, I love Monday.

Qf3 also works. 18.Qf3+ Kg8 19.Qd5+ Kf8 20.Rf5+ Ke7 21.Re1+

<xrt>, after c6, Rxc6+ (discovered check) is a killer.

Nov-19-07  Crowaholic: <zb2cr: 21. Re6, dxe6; 22. Bg5+, Bf6; 23. Bxf6#.>

It seems to me that 21. Re6 c6 allows Black to delay the mate significantly. I had also looked at 21. Bg5, mostly because it reminded me of a chess miniature I had derived from

Napoleon Bonaparte vs General Bertrand, 1814

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 Nxd4 4. Nxd4 exd4 5. Bc4 Bc5 6. c3 Qe7 7. O-O Qe5 8. f4 dxc3+ 9. Kh1 cxb2 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7?? (deviation from the original game) 11. fxe5+ Ke8 12. Qd5 bxa1=Q? (bxc1=Q allows Black to survive a little longer) 13. Qf7+ Kd8 14. Bg5+ Nf6 15. Rxf6! (Black's back rank threat is not real: ..Qxb1+ 16. Rf1+ Be7 17. Bxe7#) Qxe5 (note ..c6 16. Rxc6+) 16. Qf8+! Qe8 17. Rd6#

and found no refutation (in terms of delaying the inevitable).

Nov-19-07  Madman99X: Poor NN always get beaten on.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: Was it any of these?

Ni Nielsen
NINOV, Nikolai
NIKOLIC, Nebojsa

Nov-19-07  unferth: <playground player: Don't you wish there were some way to see how Greco would play against a named, high-quality opponent OTB? I'd pay to see Greco v. Morphy...>

good lord ... I doubt Greco would win a class B section at a modern weekend open. Morphy would eviscerate him ... and Morphy would get smoked by a modern IM.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: Yeah, well, probably every guy with a masters in physics knows more than Newton ever did. Doesn't affect his stature.
Nov-19-07  zb2cr: <Crowaholic>,

I had corrected myself later, in a post responding to <Dr. J>. Good catch on your part, thanks.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: Here's some analysis with the Opening Explorer and Fritz 8.

<1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5>

The main alternative is 3. Nf6, entering the Two Knights defense.

<4. c3>

This enters the Giuoco Piano. Two alternatives worth considering are 4. b4 (Evans Gambit) and 4. d3 ( a quiet but popular line of the Guico Piano).

<4...Nf6 5. d4>

The modern preference is 4. d3 as in
Bologan vs Kasimdzhanov, 2007.

<5...exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nc3>

The popular alternative is 7. Bd2 as in
Kasparov vs Gabdrakhmanov, 1977.

<7...Nxe4 8. O-O Nxc3>

Preferable for Black is the main line 8...Bxc3+!, as in M Bakalarz vs E Romanov, 2007.

<9. bxc3 Bxc3>

Worth considering is 9... d5 10.
cxb4 dxc4 11. Re1+ (11. d5 Ne7 =) 11... Ne7 =.

<10. Qb3 Bxd4?>

This is the losing move. Black can put up a fight and just might survive after either 10... Bxa1 11.Bxf7+ Kf8 12. Bg5 Nxd4! 13. Qa3+ Kxf7 14. Bxd8 Rxd8 15. Rxa1

or 10...d5 11. Bxd5 O-O 12. Bxf7+ Rxf7 13. Ng5 Qxg5 (13... Be6 14. Qxc3 Nxd4 15. Nxf7 Ne2+ 16. Kh1 Nxc3 17. Nxd8 Rxd8 18. Re1 Nxa2 19. Bg5 Rd6 20. Bf4 Rc6 21. h3 Nb4 22. Reb1 ) 14. Bxg5 Nxd4 15. Qd5 c6 16. Qd8+ Rf8 17. Qd6 Ne2+ 18. Kh1 .

<11. Bxf7+ Kf8 12. Bg5>

Stronger and winning immediately is 12. Bh5! d5
[12... Qe7 13. Bg5 Qe6 14. Rae1 (also winning is 14. Nxd4 )] 13. Nxd4 Nxd4 14. Qb4+ Qd6 15. Qxd4 .

<12... Bf6 13. Rae1 Ne7 14. Bh5 Ng6>

Putting up more resistance, but apparently still losing for Black is 14... d5 15. Re2 Bxg5 16. Nxg5 g6 17. Qb4 c5 18. Qxc5 Rg8 19. Rfe1 Rg7 20. Qd4 .

<15. Ne5 Nxe5 16. Rxe5 g6 17. Bh6+ Bg7 18. Rf5+ gxf5>

Also leading to quick mates are 18... Ke7 19. Bg5+ Bf6 20. Re1+ Kf8 21. Bh6# and 18... Ke8 19. Qf7#

<19. Qf7# 1-0>

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: The deflection/decoy 18. Rf5+! completes Greco's mating attack in this early history Giuoco Piano game for Yesterday's "easy" Monday puzzle.

The forced mate begins with 17. Bh6+ (mate-in-seven) and the game is won after 11. Bxf7+ .

Premium Chessgames Member
  HFlew: This seemed trickier than expected for a Monday. So I waited until Tuesday to try to solve it, and it worked! I solved it! :)
Dec-15-07  angslo: <HFlew: This seemed trickier than expected for a Monday. So I waited until Tuesday to try to solve it, and it worked! I solved it! :)> Now, that is what i call out of box thinking:)
Jan-27-08  wolfmaster: <HFlew> That was really funny!
Aug-05-11  squaresquat: Black needs to play 4...Bb6. The paradox
is that by losing a tempo moving the Bishop,black gains a tempo to maintain e5. The foundation of Greco's successful attack was his control of the center.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
18.? (November 19, 2007)
from Monday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
Italian Game, Greco (2)
from Study Material by erasmus
Beginners's Repertoire
by Timothy Glenn Forney
Il Greco
by Runemaster
18. Rf5+! (mate begins with 17. Bh6+ +-) follows 11. Bxf7+ +-
from Mating Attack by Jaredfchess
from Checkmates 18+ by Kasputin
Too late, my time has come sends shivers down my spine,
from Яяoи caяa by CharlieLuciano
It 1-0. 18 Rxg5 .m.m.....!
from xfer's favorite games2007 by xfer
Italian Game: Classical. Greco Gambit Greco Variation
from MINIATURES by gambitfan
rook sacs
by obrit
by magnetivs
POPPYLIL's favorite games
woodenbishop's favorite games #5
by woodenbishop
Play for material vs play for mate, Qf7# see Philidor v NN 1790
from Chess Prehistory by Joe Stanley
Italian Games
by Amazonwarrior
18. Rf5+! (mate begins with 17. Bh6+ +-) follows 11. Bxf7+ +-
from Mating Attack by patzer2
18 Re5-f5+! h5-bishop pins Black g6-pawn to f7-mating square
18 blancas
from Puzzle 3 by ALEXIN
sacrifício torre
from melhor de Greco by toso51
18 Re5-f5+! Black g6-pawn cannot block h5-e8, defend f7-square
from OVERLOADED! by notyetagm
plus 17 more collections (not shown)

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | advertising | contact us
Copyright 2001-2017, Chessgames Services LLC