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| Jan-12-06 | | BadTemper: No seriously, who gives a rats tush how long it took you people to find it. You and the lamont bashers and AJ bashers can stop posting here please. really im so tired of seeing "i solved this so quickly etc etc etc" |
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| Jan-12-06 | | aroyni: <yoshi927> Here's the 15 ply fritz game which is again a draw:
[Event "Shootout (Fritz9, 15ply) "]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1954.09.??"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Bent Larsen"]
[Black "Erwin Nievergelt"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A97"]
[Annotator ",Arash"]
[PlyCount "110"]
1. Nf3 e6 2. g3 f5 3. Bg2 Nf6 4. O-O Be7 5. c4 O-O 6. d4 d6 7. Nc3 Qe8 8. Re1
Ne4 9. Qc2 Nxc3 10. Qxc3 Bf6 11. Bg5 Bxg5 12. Nxg5 e5 13. dxe5 dxe5 14. Bd5+
Kh8 15. Rad1 Nc6 16. Bxc6 Qxc6 [%emt 0:01:13] 17. Qxe5 [%emt 0:01:43] h6
[%emt 0:01:28] 18. Qe7 [%emt 0:01:17] Qe8 [%emt 0:00:28] 19. Qxe8
[%emt 0:00:38] Rxe8 [%emt 0:00:21] 20. Rd8 [%emt 0:00:33] Rxd8
[%emt 0:00:43] 21. Nf7+ [%emt 0:00:50] Kg8 [%emt 0:01:03] 22. Nxd8
[%emt 0:01:27] Kf8 [%emt 0:02:34] 23. Rd1 [%emt 0:04:25] a5
[%emt 0:07:11] 24. c5 [%emt 0:03:50] Ra6 [%emt 0:02:40] 25. c6
[%emt 0:02:53] bxc6 [%emt 0:01:18] 26. Nxc6 [%emt 0:01:55] Rxc6
[%emt 0:01:13] 27. Rd8+ [%emt 0:01:40] Ke7 [%emt 0:00:44] 28. Rxc8
[%emt 0:01:30] Rc2 [%emt 0:03:50] 29. Kf1 [%emt 0:02:58] Rxb2
[%emt 0:02:57] 30. Rxc7+ [%emt 0:01:50] Kf6 [%emt 0:00:50] 31. Rc6+
[%emt 0:01:39] Ke7 [%emt 0:00:50] 32. Rc5 [%emt 0:01:12] Rxa2
[%emt 0:01:08] 33. Rxf5 [%emt 0:01:47] Ke6 (♖a2-a1+) [%emt 0:03:18] 34. e4
(♖f5-b5) [%emt 0:01:14] a4 (g7-g5) [%emt 0:03:02] 35. Ra5 [%emt 0:01:17]
g5 [%emt 0:01:30] 36. f4 (h2-h3) [%emt 0:01:46] gxf4 [%emt 0:01:38] 37.
gxf4 [%emt 0:01:01] a3 [%emt 0:01:07] 38. h3 (h2-h4) [%emt 0:01:03] Ra1+
[%emt 0:00:24] 39. Kg2 [%emt 0:00:15] a2 [%emt 0:00:15] 40. Ra6+
[%emt 0:00:17] Kf7 [%emt 0:00:07] 41. h4 [%emt 0:00:14] h5 [%emt 0:00:06]
42. Ra5 (♖a6-a8) [%emt 0:00:07] Kf6 (♔f7-g7) [%emt 0:00:05] 43. Ra8
[%emt 0:00:07] Kg6 (♔f6-g7) [%emt 0:00:04] 44. Ra7 [%emt 0:00:10] Kf6
[%emt 0:00:05] 45. Ra3 [%emt 0:00:06] Ke7 (♔f6-g7) [%emt 0:00:06] 46. Ra8
(♖a3-a4) [%emt 0:00:06] Kf7 (♔e7-e6) [%emt 0:00:06] 47. Ra6 [%emt 0:00:07]
Ke7 (♔f7-g7) [%emt 0:00:05] 48. Ra3 (e4-e5) [%emt 0:00:10] Kf7
[%emt 0:00:06] 49. Ra4 [%emt 0:00:06] Ke7 [%emt 0:00:05] 50. Kh2
[%emt 0:00:06] Rf1 [%emt 0:00:05] 51. Rxa2 [%emt 0:00:06] Rxf4
[%emt 0:00:07] 52. Ra4 [%emt 0:00:08] Rxh4+ [%emt 0:00:12] 53. Kg3
[%emt 0:00:07] Rg4+ [%emt 0:00:15] 54. Kf3 [%emt 0:00:08] Rg8
(♖g4-g6) [%emt 0:00:24] 55. Ra7+ [%emt 0:00:19] Kf6 [%emt 0:00:10] 1/2-1/2 |
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| Jan-12-06 | | beenthere240: 32....a4 was terrible (leading to a passed a pawn), but 32....Re7 didn't work either since white can play 33. Ra8 and 34. Ra7 winning the c7 pawn. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | YouRang: I missed it. Worse, even after seeing the solution, I wasn't conviced that it was the solution! Basically, white wins a pawn and has a superior pawn structure, but it's not the knockout blow that we normally see in these puzzles. I'm not complaining about the puzzle - I liked it! It was a fine move to simplify to a superior game. I suppose that more chess games are decided by this type of strategic maneuver than by dazzling mating attacks. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | bpdoc: The outcome of this puzzle is not the gain of the pawn, but rather the infiltration of the back ranks. The combination does not end with 19 Nxe5, as that move threatens another pawn. This threat forces Black to lose a beat with his counterthreat to White's c-pawn. The combination really ends with 21 Rd2, wherein White really takes control of the d-file, setting up the infiltration and the subsequent winning endgame. Thanks, Chessgames, for a subtle puzzle (which I did not get, btw). |
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| Jan-12-06 | | Averageguy: I got this puzzle in about a minute or so, the main idea came to me pretty quickly, it was just whether it should 1be 6.Nf7+ or 16.Bxc6 as the main lines just seemed to transpose, but I realized that 16.Nf7+ allows the simple 16...Rxf7, when 17.Bxf7 Qxf7 gives black two pieces for a rook and 17.Bxc6 allows 17...bxc6 18.Qxe5 Qf8 with no mate and white is down a piece. Nothing spectacular, but a pleasing puzzle nonetheless. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | marcwordsmith: Aroyni, why do you think Fritz doesn't like taking the pawn with the knight? At first glance anyway, it looks more aggressive to play Ne7+ and Nxd5, attacking Black's queen on c3, rather than Qxd5 right away. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | yoshi927: <aroyni> Your two chess computers played it out a little differently I believe. You proved that black COULD have saved the game, if he had made the right moves before, but he messed up and now he can't. Right? |
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| Jan-12-06 | | kevin86: I answered this one. First,he takes away black's defender of d8-then he picks up a pawn by a queen made taboo by mate threats at d8-black is faced with doubled pawns in a hopeless position. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | thegoodanarchist: Let's face it, the piece sac followed by king hunt is not going to show up in games between two very strong players. This puzzle exemplifies the kind of win that occurs most often in international high-level chess. If you want surprising attacks, look at games with a large disparity in skill levels between the 2 players. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | alphee: <mrjoshherman: > I tried this line too. I fact it is the only one I saw and didn't see the real solution. It does not work because of ♕g8 and with the second rook out of play in e1 and no other attacking piece it looses. If ♕g8 was impossible it was a nice mate in 5 with a queen sac but ... :o( |
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| Jan-12-06 | | jackpawn: Okay, I found Larsen's line very quickly, but like others kept thinking there had to be more. So I wasted several minutes trying to find something better before admitting I didn't see anything. So do I get credit for solving this? |
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Jan-12-06
 | | Moondoll: Wow! I actually got it right. I stared at it forever thinking there must be something better that i was missing, but eventually I decided Bxc6 was the best choice. That was the easy part I think, I thought this was a shaky Queen sac until i saw the back rank mate! Interesting game. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, White's 16. Bxc6! initiates a combination to exploit Black's weakened back rank. Using the threat of a back-rank mate White wins a pawn and doubles and isolates Black's Queeenside pawns. For the novice, Black is only down a pawn. For the stronger player, Black is clearly lost. After the exchange of Queen's, followng the sham Knight Fork, Black has no chance in the endgame. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | ianD: I got this combination one straight away(<10s).
Not sure I could have won the end game. Just a matter of technique if you are a GM. Not so simple for me! |
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Jan-12-06
 | | WannaBe: <al wazir: ... Where's the queen sac or the win of a queen that we're accustomed to getting? I want to see blood, not catsup!> My nominee/nomination for quote of the year. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | Sami Jr: I have a question. This move being mentioned previously, would 16...Qc6 be a reasonable or better alternative for black? If 17. Qe8 Qc4 with black threatening whites pawn on a2. Is this 16th move a better alternative for black or not? |
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| Jan-12-06 | | aroyni: <patzer2> what do you think about Fritz analysis that I gave? If Q takes the outcome is not clear and as I showed the 15 Ply fritz game came to a draw. I also did many Fritz9 vs Shredder 8 games and the outcomes were mostly equalities in 20 minute games following move 16. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | aroyni: <yoshi927> yes you got my point. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | dakgootje: not really tried to solve it, though i got something in this line as i saw the first 3 moves of the combination, but well i guess i missed it...doesnt care about it to be honest this weak...=s |
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| Jan-12-06 | | 4daluvofchess: 4daluvofchess: <thegoodanarchist> You mean like Kasparov vs Topalov, 1999 ? :)
I agree with your basic point, but you are being too dogmatic. Even the greatest players play games with king hunts. The presence or absence of a king hunt cannot in itself be used as a means to evaluate the players' strengths relative to one another. Actually, I think that only games between great players truly feature "king hunts", in the purest sense of the phrase. In the games you refer to, the most salient feature of the moves that constitute what we are talking about are blunders- it is not really a hunt if you can shoot the beast with one eye closed. |
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| Jan-12-06 | | Latvian Horror: Rather an interesting way to win a pawn! |
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| Jan-13-06 | | ianD: Not just win a pawn but also double blacks pawns on the c file |
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Jan-13-06
 | | LIFE Master AJ: <YouRang>
I'm not complaining about the puzzle - "I liked it! It was a fine move to simplify to a superior game. I suppose that more chess games are decided by this type of strategic maneuver than by dazzling mating attacks." You hit the nail on the head, this is precisely the kind of stuff that will win the majority of the games for you. (Probably for every one game that I could classify as a really good game with a snappy finish, there are at least 10-20 with squeezes, grinds, dropped pieces, and yes ... even outplaying your opponent and then winning a Pawn, as Larsen did here.) |
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| Jan-19-06 | | patzer2: <Aroyni> Try slowing Fritz 8 down and see what happens after 20. Nf3! I think 20. Rd8 simplifies a bit too early and that White can press his pawn advantage a bit by keeping more material on the board with 20. Nf3! As for the analysis, I agree 16...Qxc6 gives Black better survival chances than in the game line. Is it enough to hold a draw with strong play? Maybe so. Does White still have an advantage with practical winning chances? For sure! |
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