< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·
|Nov-17-11|| ||mworld: seeing that a recent game played like this by players of that caliber is refreshing.|
|Nov-17-11|| ||DrMAL: <mworld> Everyone (with very few exceptions) makes mistakes, it is much less usual at top level but either way I don't particularly revel in this fact of life. Personally, I would have preferred if Shirov had not mixed up move order so we could see interesting middlegame from this opening, it is quite a new and unusual opening and there are not many examples of what happens with it. One can always play with computer, but that is neither conclusive nor interesting. It is human creativity that makes high level chess so fascinating to me, cheers.|
|Nov-18-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I think someone said that Wells no longer plays this line ... |
P Wells vs Y Zhou, 2011,
... obviously, that was an error.
|Nov-18-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: |
Shirov,Alexei (2732) - Orosa Martinez,Victor (2054) [A45]
Villarrobledo op 24th (1) / 25,07,2009.
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 c5 3.Bxf6 gxf6 4.d5 Qb6 5.Qc1 f5 6.g3 Bg7 7.c3 d6 8.Nf3 Nd7 9.Bg2 Nf6 10.Nh4 Bd7 11.0-0 e6 12.Nd2 Qc7 13.Qc2 0-0 14.Rad1 Rad8 15.Rfe1 b5 16.e4 fxe4 17.Nxe4 Nxd5 18.Rxd5 exd5 19.Ng5 f5 20.Bxd5+ Kh8 21.Qe2 Rde8 22.Qh5 1-0
(I will submit this and also post the PGN in my forum.)
|Nov-18-11|| ||mworld: <DrMAL: <mworld> Everyone (with very few exceptions) makes mistakes, it is much less usual at top level but either way I don't particularly revel in this fact of life.>|
|Nov-18-11|| ||King Death: <DrMAL> Do you think he even noticed that 6...Bg7 was played by Shirov's opponent? Of course, the <LM> is always right about everything! In just a little while here, that's pretty obvious.|
|Nov-18-11|| ||DrMAL: <King Death> BTW in Dembo book which I decided to get, it states (p.28) "6...Bh6! The tactical point behind this critical move will become clear in a moment." For <Life MORON AJ> this may be moment of eternity! LOL. Thanx <SWT> for pointing out book it also has excellent suggestions elsewhere, cheers.|
|Nov-18-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: To repeat the obvious ... since some people obviously cannot grasp plain English ... ... ... |
ANY CHESS ENGINE ... pick one ... will choose the vastly superior and certainly more logical move of 6...Bg7!; over the comparitively weaker 6...Bh6.
You are welcome to fire up your own chess engine and try this yourself ... also, any amount of DPA's, sliding, etc, will also verify that 6...Bg7! is absolutely the best move. It also avoids all of the difficulties that Black gets himself into in this game ... problems - that even a GM of Shirov's caliber - could not overcome.
QED / END OF LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|Nov-18-11|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: A completely useless and pathetic comment from AJ, as per usual.|
The whole point is 6...Bg7 is the more respected main line in this branch of the Tromp. It was because of games like Hodgson-v.d.Wiel 1994 and this one that 6...Bh6 had been ignored.
That was until Yelena Dembo, a Greek ELO 2450+ women GM and male IM player - vastly stronger in playing strength, international experience and written work than AJ; ie. a proper Master, unlike that Florida patzer - had published an interesting book on Anti-King's Indian openings repertoire book for black in 2009. (There is an earlier book covering the same topic, but suggesting some different lines, by Joe Gallagher, so both books provide the KID player with anything he would want versus the anti-KIDS.)
6...Bh6!? is worthy of more testing. Will it be refuted? Quite possibly. That is how opening theory develops.
GM Richard Palliser - someone else who is a real Master and vastly stronger than AJ - commented that the line is interesting and worthy of tests.
I bet the IM and GM are so unprofessional that they don't own engines or know how to use them. ;o)
AJ should play with his toys and leave the grown ups to talk chess.
|Nov-18-11|| ||Nemesistic: I dont see much wrong with 6..Bh6 personally but im a mere patzer!
Maybe g7 is better,but i sure as hell don't need to let my Computer work it out for me,then argue with all who disagree <lifemasterbj>|
|Nov-18-11|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: @<Nemesistic>
the logic of 6...Bh6 and after is this:
Black wishes to prove b2 a weakness. White can sac the exchange, though, and trap the black queen on a1, because trying to run home runs into the extremely strong point 12. d6! Black is forced to play 11...d6 to survive; 12. Qd2 from white next. The question becomes one of whether white ends up materially or positionally ahead. It isn't clear -- things get very tactical.
If it turns out black is plain better, then white's 6. c4 must be dropped for the older 6. g3.
AJ has no clue about the intricacies of this.
|Nov-18-11|| ||King Death: While I don't have a chess engine, in reading some remarks <DrMAL> has made, those engines don't seem to do as well in early opening positions with large "trees", as Kotov called them.|
Is it possible that <AJ> has put his findings here without thinking, just aping what his wonderful engine tells him? If that's the way it goes, I have a hard time imagining him playing a game where it's just him and the other guy, no engines allowed.
|Nov-19-11|| ||King Death: < Annie K.: <cg.com> FWIW, I also agree with <twinlark>, <Ohio>, etc. - the Bandar-log, uh, I mean the obsessive anti-AJ troop, needs to be dealt with, and not just followed around and retroactively cleaned up after. A nice two-week vacation upon continued acts of vandalism sounds about right - that way they could be back in time for most of the Clue Hunt... ;)>|
This post ignores some realities that are obvious to me in just my short time here. You (and others) seem to have this opinion that <AJ> is a misunderstood creature who never says or does anything wrong and that "The Troop" follows him everywhere and will attack him at the drop of a hat. I won't say that the behavior of "The Troop" is perfect, but don't be in too much of a hurry to be an enabler as AJ plays his victim card. If you refer to actions of "The Troop" as vandalism, what would you call AJ's repeated abuse of others over the smallest hint of any suggestion that he's less than perfect? I've read some of the stuff he's put out there over the years and it's pretty ugly. If he ever said anything like that to me face to face, I'd put him in his place, and fast. I don't think he would though. He seems like a perfect bully but only when everything is his way.
|Nov-19-11|| ||FSR: It is silly to just say "the engines don't like that move, therefore it's weak - Q.E.D." (to paraphrase A.J.'s remarks). Don't believe me? Just look at A.J.'s comments at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/lif... to his 21st move in A J Goldsby vs R Aeria, 2000:|
<21.Nf5+!!, (Maybe - '!!!/!!!!') ...
This is easily one of the most profound moves I have ever played. It is also one of the most surprising.
As a test, I offered this position to several strong computer programs.
I set each to search 3 nodes, set the hash tables to 25 MB, and then let them crank. At least five of them did not list this move in their top three move choices after exactly seven minutes of analysis. (Seven minutes being the limit set by expert programmers for the average program, running on a Pentium III, to find
even the most astounding and amazing moves from known brilliancies.)
This was true right after the game ... it may NOT be true as the over-all technology of computers and the associated chess programs continually advance!>
(parentheses around last sentence omitted)
I realize that, as AJ says, chess engines are even stronger today than they were in 2000, but they were plenty strong then. Deep Blue won its match against reigning World Champion Kasparov in 1997.
So if it's possible for a move that A.J. played to be better than that recommended by the engines, it's also possible that a move that various GMs and IMs have played is better than that recommended by the engines. It may or may not be, but just turning off your brain because of what the computer says is a bad idea.
|Nov-19-11|| ||acirce: The really wonderfully ironic thing is that AJ himself repeatedly makes this (trivial) point, that computers do not necessarily present you with the absolute truth, in his own notes to.... <this game>! http://www.ajschess.com/lifemastera...|
You couldn't make it up.
|Nov-19-11|| ||King Death: <acirce> But the only truth is truth as presented by <AJ>.|
<FSR> That's right. I've heard a term used called "suspension of reality" and what AJ seems to ignore (if he even understands it) is that it's a bad idea to let others do all your thinking for you. We were given a brain and free will, so why not use them?
|Nov-19-11|| ||FSR: <acirce> Remarkable find you made there. A.J. writes of 9.Qxf4!?, the move Wells played, and which led to Shirov's resignation just four moves later, |
<Fritz 12 says this is no good and it (now) shows the evaluation of ... "Black is winning.">
And yet now A.J. evidently thinks that Fritz 12 (an engine!) is wrong and Wells (a human!) is right. How is that possible? Apparently engines are infallible when they agree with A.J.'s opinion, but highly fallible when they do not.
|Nov-19-11|| ||FSR: <SimonWebbsTiger> Very true. I've never met, nor exchanged e-mails with, nor talked with, nor Facebook friended, etc. any other member of "the troop." I have no idea what any of them look like. Nor, to my knowledge, has the membership of "the troop" ever been defined. It must vary from time to time, and tends to increase, since the number of people A.J. has insulted is constantly increasing.|
|Nov-19-11|| ||FSR: <BanLMAJ: ... There IS NO TROOP once again AJ who has HIMSELF CREATED SO MANY ENEMIES, lumps them all in a group. Fact is, most EVERYONE who comes in contact with AJ turns into his enemy, the only thing one can do to prevent this is to WORSHIP HIM NO MATTER WHAT MISTAKES HE MAKES. If one tries to HELP HIM or SIMPLY OFFER TRUTH, one is an idiot, a spammer, an enemy and a member of some troop.>|
Truer words were never written. To the last sentence one could add "and a sockpuppet."
|Nov-19-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Ron: (e-mail)
#1.) Most of "the troop" ... for all of their spoutings ... don't really even begin to grasp chess. [Most are nothing than lower-rated players who cannot begin to play (or analyze!) if you take their PC engines away from them.]
#2.) As you pointed out, Black need not clear the long diagonal, if he was going to play his Bishop to h6. As you pointed out, 5...f5; is unnecessary; Black should make some other move, or play ...Bh6 immediately.
|Nov-19-11|| ||King Death: <LIFE Master AJ:
#1.) Most of "the troop" ... for all of their spoutings ... don't really even begin to grasp chess. [Most are nothing than lower-rated players who cannot begin to play (or analyze!) if you take their PC engines away from them.] >
This is a pretty good self-description by our man. Look in the mirror much?
|Nov-19-11|| ||acirce: <LMAJ> Come on, this is just sad. Nobody believes in these fictitious e-mails you pretend that people send you. Why are you even trying?|
|Nov-22-11|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: it goes without saying that 5...Bh6 6. e3 f5 doesn't require white to play 7. c4.|
5...f5 6. g3 is an old main line, as is 5...f5 6. c4 Bg7.
|Feb-02-12|| ||LIFE Master AJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8_0...
<<AJ !! if i knew you had a channel ida subbed ages ago .. not been on chessgames d ot c om for months (was slumming on there for too long at a time so i just stick to youtube + blogs + an openings expl but i enjoyed yr kibitzing, was /is a valuable asset /feature of the site to my mind, usually followed it w/ my set - i noticed SeanGodley cited you a while bac in one of his immaculate commentaries, some advanced analysis you'd done on a Fischer game
look forward to checking out yr chl properly>>
E-mail: <<Bst chanl on YT>>
|May-09-13|| ||perfidious: <DrMAL: <mworld> Everyone (with very few exceptions) makes mistakes, it is much less usual at top level but either way I don't particularly revel in this fact of life....> |
Can't agree more with this; if I ever return to serious play, maybe I can make a few less than before!
<....It is human creativity that makes high level chess so fascinating to me....>
Here's to the human element in OTB play, anyway. Correspondence chess is largely dead, unless one wishes to pit one's software against that of another.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·