< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 15 OF 15 ·
|Jun-16-11|| ||Check It Out: 27.Ne6 is a great looking move. Reminds me of Anand's Bg6 in that Scandanavian game of his that popped up recently. |
Anand may be mild-mannered but his chess can be destructive!
|Jun-16-11|| ||sevenseaman: Anand's this one and Anand vs Ivanchuk, 1996 are the two games I have visited today, and I am beginning to comprehend the meaning of real chess greatness.|
|Jun-16-11|| ||sevenseaman: Apropos my earlier comment here, the two Anand games are 11 years apart; two formidable opponents a generation apart and the same deep, incisive play by Anand. |
Age just seems like a breeze that is passing by an unconcerned Anand! I feel so awed.
|Jul-04-12|| ||Eyal: A few months after this game, in Nijboer vs E Postny, 2007, Black deviated with 19...Qb8, and after 20.Re2 Qb7 21.Rec2 Rac8 22.Nd2 Rxc2 23.Rxc2 Rc8 it was quickly drawn (though the position wasn't exactly dead). Indeed, it seems that Black's troubles really began here with 19...Rc8, because on the next move he cannot recapture with the queen on c8 (it would hang the knight on b6), and so cannot counter immediately White's doubling on the c-file and has to play the awkward 22...Na8 to prevent penetration on c7.|
Btw, going again over this game with the help of Houdini, I've noticed another interesting sub-variation of the winning line following 27...fxe6 that I mentioned at the time during the game (on p.6) and that was discussed at some length on p.13: 28.dxe6 Be8 29.Qxh6 Nb6 30.e7+ Nc4 31.Qf8+ Kh7 32.Bd1!! (with the idea of Bg4-Be6):
click for larger view
32...d5 33.Bg4 Nd6 34.f4! (again the f-file decides; 34.Be6 Bd7 and now the knight on d6 defends against Qf7+; 35.Bg8+ Kh8 doesn't lead to more than a draw) 34...exf4 35.Be6 Bd7 36.Rxf4 Nf5 (defends against the mate threat on h4; 36...Rxf8 37.exf8Q Qxf8 38.Rxf8 Bxe6 39.Rf6 winning one of the black pieces) 37.Qf7+ Kh6 38.Rxf5! (38.exf5 Rc1+ 39.Rf1 [else Qxf4+ with mate comes next] 39...Rxf1+ 40.Kxf1 Qf4+ and Black has perpetual check) 38...gxf5 (38...Bxe6 39.Qxe6 Rc1+ 40.Kf2! and now the king can escape the checks; Black has no good defence against Qf6-Qf8+) 39.Qf6+ Kh7 (39...Kh5 40.Bf7#) 40.Qxf5+ followed by 41.Bxd7 and White wins.
|Sep-08-12|| ||vinidivici: guys,
how if 28....fxe6?
|Sep-09-12|| ||vinidivici: how about it?|
|Sep-09-12|| ||vinidivici: no answer?
|Sep-09-12|| ||me to play: Just a guess would be 29.dxe6, with the pawn push f5 to follow. Not sure after that...|
|Jan-06-13|| ||NightroGlycerine: 29. dxe6 followed by e7+, Qxh6 is a disaster for black. Don't be so discouraged by no one answering you immediately; no one constantly scans kibitzes looking for questions to answer. Also this question was answered earlier in kibitzing.|
|Aug-17-14|| ||FSR: 27.Nxf7 Kxf7 28.Qxh6 is tempting, but Black looks OK after 28...Rh8. So probably 27.Ne6 Kh7 (27...fxe6 28.dxe6 B moves 29.Qxh6 with a huge attack) 28.f4 with attack.|
|Aug-17-14|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: I presume this is a recent and fairly well-known game, but I haven't seen it before. Anyhow,|
27 Nxf7 Kxf7
28 Qxh6 Rh8
doesn't look very good for White, so I imagine the solution instead starts
27 Nxf7 Kxf7
The most natural line for Black fails badly, namely:
27 Nxf7 Kxf7
28 f4 ef
29 Qxf4+ Ke7
30 Qf5+ Ke8
Alternatives that don't give White a material advantage (including winning the bishop) are apt to give him all three kingside pawns plus an attack for the knight. But forestalling that fate by Be8 (to defend g6) is apt to interfere with the defense of f8 and hence allow mate.
|Aug-17-14|| ||diagonalley: well... i managed to plump for the first move(!) but had little notion as to how to follow up... though i'm wondering if software could improve on carlsen's defence|
|Aug-17-14|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: Managed to find the first 3-5 moves in the main lines, but did not see 31...f6.|
|Aug-17-14|| ||morfishine: I looked at <27.Ne6> continuing 27...fxe6 28.dxe6 Be8 29.Qxh6 but figured Black holds after <29...Rc4>|
|Aug-17-14|| ||agb2002: The material is identical.
The first idea that comes to mind 27.Nxf7 Kxf7 28.Qxh6 seems to go nowhere after 28... Rh8.
The bishop x-rays the black king. This suggests 27.Ne6, trying to open the diagonal a2-g8:
A) 27... fxe6 28.dxe6
A.1) 28... Ae8 29.Qxh6
A.1.a) 29... Qc7 30.e7+ Bf7 31.Qxg6+ Kh8 32.Bxf7 and mate soon.
A.1.b) 29... Qa7 30.e7+ Rc4 (30... Bf7 is similar to A.1.a) 31.Bxc4+ bxc4 32.Qf8+ Kh7 33.Qxe8 + [R+2P vs N].
A.1.c) 29... Nb6 30.e7+ Nc4 31.Qf8+ (31.f4 Qa7+ 32.Kh2 Qxe7) 31... Kh7 32.f4
A.1.c.i) 32... Nd2 33.Bg8+ Kh8 34.Bf7+ Kh7 35.Qg8+ Kh6 36.Qxg6#.
A.1.c.ii) 32... Qa7+ 33.Kh2 Qe3 34.fxe5 Nxe5 (34... Qh6 35.exd6 + - [4P vs N]) 35.Bg8+ Kh8 36.Be6+ Kh7 37.Qg8+ Kh6 38.Qh8+ Kg5 39.h4#.
A.2) 28... Ac6 29.Qxh6 Bxe4 30.e7+ Rc4 31.f4 Qe8 32.Qg5 and the opening of the f-file seems very advantageous for White as in A.1.c.
A.3) 28... Rc7 29.exd7+ Kg7 30.Qxd6 + - [2P].
B) 27... Kh7 28.f4
B.1) 28... fxe6 29.dxe6
B.1.a) 29... Be8 30.f5 (after 30.fxe5 dxe5 it is not clear what to do) creating two passed pawns and threatening f6, looks good for White.
B.1.b) 29... Bc6 30.fxe5
B.1.b.i) 30... Bxe4 31.Rf7+ Kg8 33.Qxh6 wins.
B.1.b.ii) 30... Qa7+ 31.Kh2 and White threatens Rf7+, Qxd6, etc.
B.1.c) 29... Bxe6 30.Bxe6 and the bishop has gained mobility and Black has new weak points (d5, d6, etc.).
B.2) 28... Bxe6 29.dxe6 fxe6 30.Bxe6 transposes to B.1.c.
B.3) 28... Nc7 29.fxe5
B.3.a) 29... fxe6 30.Rf7+ Kg8 31.Rxd7 looks winning.
B.3.b) 29... Nxe6 30.dxe6 Bxe6 (30... fxe6 31.Rf7+) 31.Bxe6 fxe6 32.exd6 seems to win.
|Aug-17-14|| ||Once: Way beyond my pay grade. I looked at both Ne6 and Nxf7, but couldn't find anything convincing in either of them.|
Fritzie has been chewing on it for a couple of minutes now and so far isn't seeing anything after 27. Ne6 Be8 = (0.00). I'll leave him on for a couple of hours and see what he finds.
|Aug-17-14|| ||perfidious: <Once: Way beyond my pay grade....>|
You aren't the only one.
<....I looked at both Ne6 and Nxf7, but couldn't find anything convincing in either of them.>
The idea I cursorily examined was 27.Nxf7 Kxf7 28.Qh6, but did not see anything concrete.
Had never seen this game before, with its fine attacking idea.
|Aug-17-14|| ||Once: After over an hour, Fritzie is scoring this line as +0.89 - 27. Ne6 Kh7 28. f4 fxe6 29. dxe6 Be8.|
27...Be8 has slipped to more than -2.2
|Aug-17-14|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane"
White to play 27.?
I soon dismissed this line:
27.Nxf7 Kxf7 28.f4 Kg7 29.fxe5 fxe5 30.Qf2 Qb6 31.Qxb6 Nxb6 White becomes down in material and gains nothing.
I then followed the this line:
Just "appears" that White is slightly stronger
|Aug-17-14|| ||Eduardo Leon: I looked briefly at the position and got this much: 27.♘e6 fxe6 28.dxe6 ♗e8 29.♕xh6 and 27.♘e6 ♔h7 28.f4. But I could not calculate in depth why the sacrifice is sound.|
|Aug-17-14|| ||vajeer: <Once: 28. f4 fxe6 29. dxe6 Be8.> as you have suggested looks dangerous as after 30.f5 white can get into a promising position. When considering this position in human mode I didn't want to give White two connected passed pawns, and I thought 28...Bxe6 might be better. But looks like Fritzie prefers 28...fxe6|
|Aug-17-14|| ||Marmot PFL: 27 Ne6 was the very line I considered, quickly deciding that 27...fe6 28 de6 would be too strong for white but that 27...Kh6 28 f4 would also yield a strong attack. That was about as far as I tried to get however, nothing like the depth these guys must have looked at.|
|Aug-17-14|| ||DarthStapler: I got the first move|
|Feb-03-15|| ||SpiritedReposte: Wow Carlsens knight on a8 couldn't be much worse and meanwhile Anand has a super knight on e6.|
|Mar-04-17|| ||Saniyat24: Maybe instead of 29...Be8 Carlsen could have played 29...Rg8, as the black King has no pieces around him as protection...|
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