< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 14 OF 14 ·
|Mar-12-07|| ||Atking: <Fisheremon:> <Can Black organise Bd7-e8 and keep the queen out of h5 ? Then if Ng4 and Qh2, angling for Qh6, perhaps Qlack can organise Bf7 and Qh8.> I think <euripides> means in your line <White has 29.Nh2, e.g. 29...Qa7+ 30.Kh1 Rc8 31.Rxc8 Bxc8 32.h4> 32. ...Bd7 and like him I fail to see how White could progress. Therefore on <29.h4 29...g4 30.Nh2 Qa7+ 31.Kh1 h5 32.Nf1 Rh8 33.Ng3 Kf8> To say now Kh2 with Qc3 Ra1 and a4 black rook can't move easily on queen side because of h6 or/and h5 weakness. The zugzwang looks more serious here.Isn't it ?|
|Mar-12-07|| ||Atking: It's just an opinion but I already prefer White start to 14.b4!|
|Mar-13-07|| ||sanyas: <nimzo knight> Yes. I suppose the white knight was the <horse> which <bolted> to e6 and the h-pawn was the <door> which was belatedly <closed>.|
|Mar-13-07|| ||euripides: In Leko vs Mamedyarov, 2006, White played 17.Bh6 and then put the queen on e2. Anand puts the bishop on e3, later overloading the black queen by the threat on b6, and saves time by leaving the queen on d1. That made it harder for Black to organise the queen's side pieces and led to the uncomfortable Na8. In the keres variation,Black spends four moves to get his knight to c4, so taking another two moves to send it back to a8 is rather humiliating. The underlying strategic question is: is the c4 square robust enough for Black to spend so much time fighting for it ?|
|Mar-13-07|| ||e4Newman: <is the c4 square robust enough for Black to spend so much time fighting for it ?>|
clearly in the closed lopez, this is where black must play unless white goofs somewhere else. but your point is well taken, here black spends too much time with that knight.
but imho, the Keres is a weak line. try a classic chigorin line like this.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.c3 d6 9.h3 Na5 10.Bc2 c5 11.d4 Qc7 12.Nbd2 cxd4 13.cxd4 Nc6 14.Nb3 a5 15.Be3 a4 16.Nbd2 Nb4 17.Bb1 Bd7 18.a3 Nc6 19.Bd3 Na5 *
it's not my favourite line, but here the threats of black's occupation in that general area (c2,c4, etc...) are stronger.
having said that, i've never seen someone capitalize in the closed lopez the way vishy did in this game. strong positional play combined with deep tactics and no mistakes.
|Mar-13-07|| ||Mateo: <Eyal> <Fisheremon: <Hesam7: After: 27...fxe6 28.dxe6 Be8 29.e7+ Kg7 30.Qd5 Rc4 31.Bxc4 bxc4 32.Qc4 <Kf6>> You should better try 33.Qg8 plan.> True - but 32...Nc7 would be much better for Black in this line.> I agree with that statement. The Knight has an interesting outpost at d4. For instance, 33.Rc1 Nb5 34.a4 Nd4 35.Qxa6 Qxb4 36.a5 Kf7. Black holds.|
|Mar-13-07|| ||Fisheremon: <Atking: <Fisheremon:> <Can Black organise Bd7-e8 and keep the queen out of h5 ? Then if Ng4 and Qh2, angling for Qh6, perhaps Qlack can organise Bf7 and Qh8.> I think <euripides> means in your line <White has 29.Nh2, e.g. 29...Qa7+ 30.Kh1 Rc8 31.Rxc8 Bxc8 32.h4> 32. ...Bd7 and like him I fail to see how White could progress.> Right, here White could play somewhat stronger 32.Qe2, e.g. (I just illustrate Knight route <Nf1-g3-Qh5 and transfer Knight to g4>) 32...Qc7 33.Nf1 Nb6 34.Ng3 Kf8 35.Kh2 Bb7 36.Qh5 Qg7 37.Nc4 Kg3 38.Bc8 Nh2 etc.|
|Mar-13-07|| ||Fisheremon: <Mateo: <Eyal> <Fisheremon: <Hesam7: After: 27...fxe6 28.dxe6 Be8 29.e7+ Kg7 30.Qd5 Rc4 31.Bxc4 bxc4 32.Qc4 <Kf6>> You should better try 33.Qg8 plan.> True - but 32...Nc7 would be much better for Black in this line.> I agree with that statement. The Knight has an interesting outpost at d4. For instance, 33.Rc1 Nb5 34.a4 Nd4 35.Qxa6 Qxb4 36.a5 Kf7. Black holds.> As I pointed out before 34.Qc8 enough for a win here (although <Eyal>'s line gives a more beautiful win).|
|Mar-14-07|| ||samsal27: <suppose we will have Anand-Rybka match sometime this year?> Why not?!|
|Mar-15-07|| ||Billy Ray Valentine: <e4Newman: <is the c4 square robust enough for Black to spend so much time fighting for it ?>|
clearly in the closed lopez, this is where black must play unless white goofs somewhere else. but your point is well taken, here black spends too much time with that knight.>
This is exactly the sort of reason I abandoned playing 1...e5 in response 1. e4 (and started playing the Caro-Kann and the French). This stuff can be aggravating!
|May-28-07|| ||ahmadov: Yesterday, I read very interesting annotation of this game by Anand in "Shakhmatnoye Obozreniye" magazine. Anand said he had played 12.d5 because Leko had some good games with that move previously...|
|Sep-13-07|| ||Pragmatist: The Keres variation of the Ruy Lopez is not a weak line e4Newman. What you must mean is, the Keres variation, in your humble opinion, is not the best theoretical chance for equality in the Ruy Lopez. |
There are two proofs that the line is not "weak".
First, a very very strong player developed it, and very very strong players continue to play it. Carlsen is one of the world's very best players, and you can be sure he had home preparation for the Keres variation. If he thought it strong enough, after analyzing it for hours in the comfort of his home, then it is NOT a weak line. Also, the previous year Mamedyarov drew with it against Leko! both players are over 2700 and Leko is a candidate for the world championship. It even looks like black was slightly better in the final position.
Leko vs Mamedyarov, 2006
The second proof is based on the definition of "weak line" in chess. If a variation gives white a slight advantage (i.e. ) then it does not mean black's variation is weak. If it did, then a large number of super-GM games would involve black playing "weak" variations. "Weak" means that white gets a clear edge (i.e. ). If white regularly got in the Keres variation, you would almost never see it played, except perhaps in a rapid game.
Some other recent GM games in the line:
Sutovsky-Acs (Both GMs, Acs is 150 pts lower rated and WON! with black in this serious tournament game with...the Keres variation!):
Sutovsky vs Acs, 2005
Use the opening explorer to see some other games. This game, Anand-Carlsen, actually increased the popularity of the Keres variation as a few GMs played it after this game.
|Oct-21-07|| ||notyetagm: It looks like this Anand victory just won the Chess Informant Best Game prize for Informator 99.|
I say "looks like" because the voting table up at http://www.chesscafe.com/informant/... is for the previous issue. But Anand vs Carlsen, 2007 is the first game in the list of annotated games, which in the past means that it was the winner.
|Feb-15-08|| ||Virgilio Jacobus: Fischer was "unimpressed" when Keres introduced his novelty 11...Nd7 against him at Curacao, 1962, because "Black loses time redeveloping his Knight [to b6], but the K-side is weakened by its absence and it's questionable whether the Knight is not better where it stands originally." (from "My 60 Memorable Games") So they're still playing it 45 years later, but here Anand beautifully demonstrates the potential drawbacks which Fischer indicated.|
|Jul-20-10|| ||andreagiananti: I never quite got the point of all those knight moves in the keres defence. What is black's goal?|
|Dec-23-10|| ||Aristote: Beautiful display on the strengh of the light squares white bishop in the Ruy Lopez. A master piece.|
|Jun-16-11|| ||Check It Out: 27.Ne6 is a great looking move. Reminds me of Anand's Bg6 in that Scandanavian game of his that popped up recently. |
Anand may be mild-mannered but his chess can be destructive!
|Jun-16-11|| ||sevenseaman: Anand's this one and Anand vs Ivanchuk, 1996 are the two games I have visited today, and I am beginning to comprehend the meaning of real chess greatness.|
|Jun-16-11|| ||sevenseaman: Apropos my earlier comment here, the two Anand games are 11 years apart; two formidable opponents a generation apart and the same deep, incisive play by Anand. |
Age just seems like a breeze that is passing by an unconcerned Anand! I feel so awed.
|Jul-04-12|| ||Eyal: A few months after this game, in Nijboer vs E Postny, 2007, Black deviated with 19...Qb8, and after 20.Re2 Qb7 21.Rec2 Rac8 22.Nd2 Rxc2 23.Rxc2 Rc8 it was quickly drawn (though the position wasn't exactly dead). Indeed, it seems that Black's troubles really began here with 19...Rc8, because on the next move he cannot recapture with the queen on c8 (it would hang the knight on b6), and so cannot counter immediately White's doubling on the c-file and has to play the awkward 22...Na8 to prevent penetration on c7.|
Btw, going again over this game with the help of Houdini, I've noticed another interesting sub-variation of the winning line following 27...fxe6 that I mentioned at the time during the game (on p.6) and that was discussed at some length on p.13: 28.dxe6 Be8 29.Qxh6 Nb6 30.e7+ Nc4 31.Qf8+ Kh7 32.Bd1!! (with the idea of Bg4-Be6):
click for larger view
32...d5 33.Bg4 Nd6 34.f4! (again the f-file decides; 34.Be6 Bd7 and now the knight on d6 defends against Qf7+; 35.Bg8+ Kh8 doesn't lead to more than a draw) 34...exf4 35.Be6 Bd7 36.Rxf4 Nf5 (defends against the mate threat on h4; 36...Rxf8 37.exf8Q Qxf8 38.Rxf8 Bxe6 39.Rf6 winning one of the black pieces) 37.Qf7+ Kh6 38.Rxf5! (38.exf5 Rc1+ 39.Rf1 [else Qxf4+ with mate comes next] 39...Rxf1+ 40.Kxf1 Qf4+ and Black has perpetual check) 38...gxf5 (38...Bxe6 39.Qxe6 Rc1+ 40.Kf2! and now the king can escape the checks; Black has no good defence against Qf6-Qf8+) 39.Qf6+ Kh7 (39...Kh5 40.Bf7#) 40.Qxf5+ followed by 41.Bxd7 and White wins.
|Sep-08-12|| ||vinidivici: guys,
how if 28....fxe6?
|Sep-09-12|| ||vinidivici: how about it?|
|Sep-09-12|| ||vinidivici: no answer?
|Sep-09-12|| ||me to play: Just a guess would be 29.dxe6, with the pawn push f5 to follow. Not sure after that...|
|Jan-06-13|| ||NightroGlycerine: 29. dxe6 followed by e7+, Qxh6 is a disaster for black. Don't be so discouraged by no one answering you immediately; no one constantly scans kibitzes looking for questions to answer. Also this question was answered earlier in kibitzing.|
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