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| Feb-06-10 |
| iamsheaf: Top players follow a lot of development in theory regularly, so they only play the variations, line or opening (they are all the same) which are well known and trusted by strong GMs, within these parameters they innovate and these are further studied by the second tier GMs..so if you don't know enough of theory then you can't be a Kramnik or Vishy.. |
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| Feb-06-10 |
| iamsheaf: One last word..Every opening is a variation of a previously known opening..so the terms openings, variations or lines are not that different. So if you mean an ECO code then Meran has a different ECO D47 just as Berlin C67. in fact C67 has rio de janero variation along with Berlin wall l'Hermet. So actually what Kramnik played was l'Hermet Berlin Wall variation of Spanish Game. So if you discount my examples as merely reviving a variation then it is the same case with Kramnik as well. |
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| Feb-06-10 |
| VaselineTopLove: In my opinion, I don't see the point of this entire discussion, i.e. not merely to answer a question, but to know the purpose of who popularized what, especially in today's era with computers doing most of your work. I particularly don't care who popularized what. But I'm more interested in the contents of what was popularized rather than the line itself, i.e if it lead to exciting games and victories for the person employing it, or if it was just used as a drawing weapon, otherwise what's the point of employing a line if it doesn't win for you? Btw, <Conlamismamano> the Petrov doesn't feature on Topalov's most played openings, like you previously suggested. |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| VaselineTopLove: <<Vishy himself was playing petrov with black pieces even before..how did kramnik popularise it then ?>> <<Maybe because Kramnik had better results with it?>> ---> This doesn't make sense - If Anand was playing the Petrov even before, then obviously he wasn't inspired by Kramnik. |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| indianchessupdates: . Tournaments in India
8th Parsvnath Open (Delhi)
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Prize money Rs.12.5 Lakhs($26600)
1st Prize Rs.2.75 Lakhs($5850)
Finished in January
2nd Chennai Open
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Prize money Rs.10.2 Lakhs($21600)
1st Prize Rs.2.0 Lakhs($4250)
Finished in February
2nd Tata Open (Jamshedpur)
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Prize money Rs.3.7 Lakhs($7900)
1st Prize Rs.0.7 Lakhs($1500)
will be conducted in April
2nd SCS Open(Bhuvaneswar)
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Prize money Rs.11.0 Lakhs($23400)
1st Prize Rs.2.0 Lakhs($4250)
will be conducted in May
3rd Mumbai Open
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Prize money Rs.13 Lakhs($27700)
1st Prize Rs.3.0 Lakhs($6400)
will be conducted in June
48th Premier National Chess Championship
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Prize money Rs.4.0 Lakhs($8500)
1st Prize Rs.1.0 Lakhs($2100)
will be conducted in December |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| ConLaMismaMano: <VaselineTopLove> <Btw, <Conlamismamano> the Petrov doesn't feature on Topalov's most played openings, like you previously suggested.> <<I mean who cares if the Berlin was revived? How many players really play it at the top level.> Almost every top GM has tried the Berlin at least once and it's one of the main responses to 1.e4 by one of your favourite players: Topalov!> Don't get confused, it was the Berlin. |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| iamsheaf: <ConLaMismaMano> Incidentally, Topalov played C67:Spanish Game, Berlin Defense:l'Hermet Variation Berlin wall defense, played in Linares 98, the strongest tournament of that time, against Peter Svidler. This is roughly a year before Kramnik first tried it in Wijk Aan Zee. I know the database is incomplete here but I think most of the games of Topalov and Kramnik at high level must be available. Anyway, no attempt to create a row again. But did Topalov tried it in Linares 98 because he knew that Kramnik will have great results with it in future? Svidler vs Topalov, 1998 |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| ConLaMismaMano: <But did Topalov tried it in Linares 98 because he knew that Kramnik will have great results with it in future?> I never claimed that because someone played certain opening or variation or line or whatever you like to call it he had the "crystal ball" and could predict the future. The point is how popular the Berlin became after Topalov used it in 98'? Very littlle. After Kramnik employed it in 2000 it hit the head lines and the majority of top GM tested it. |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| ConLaMismaMano: But it's ok, i found some interesting ideas in the answer cruyff gave me. |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| VaselineTopLove: <The point is how popular the Berlin became after Topalov used it in 98'? Very littlle. After Kramnik employed it in 2000 it hit the head lines and the majority of top GM tested it.> Because Topalov had played one game with it, and Kramnik played more games with it and so people had a larger sample of games to research and choose from, as it worked for Kramnik in securing draws. I'd guess this strategy was adopted by many weaker players who hoped to hold stronger GMs to draws from the black side. I'm not sure how much the Meran has picked up among the general chess playing public after the Bonn match, given that it's rather complicated, and the average club level player out there isn't very tactically gifted, and so is more likely to choose simpler, positional openings instead of wild, complicated variations that keep the position open, and require a keen eye for tactics. It again boils down to playing strength, playing style/preference for positions and intention of play (draw or win). I agree with <iamsheaf> that virtually almost all openings have been tried out by many top-level GMs at some point or the other. The only reason another picks it up is because if my opponent has prepared it, then I must know it too, in order to bust his preparation. I can bet that Kramnik probably studied the Meran even more deeply after the Bonn match just so that nobody else could spring a surprise on him using the same variation. All the top GMs know a lot about a lot of openings but only use little of what they know depending on their playing styles. I think what's more important than popularizing an opening is to look at the kind of results you have had with it overall. |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| Blunderdome: If Anand gets a lead with few games left against Topalov, what opening will he use as a drawing weapon with black? |
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| Feb-07-10 |
| VaselineTopLove: <If Anand gets a lead with few games left against Topalov, what opening will he use as a drawing weapon with black?> Anand has a tendency of playing based on his opponents' weaknesses and not necessarily with a specific outcome in mind. For example, he doesn't appear to be the kind to say before a game, "I'll draw today with this color". As was seen in Bonn, he continued playing risky openings even after getting a lead. In the last game, he played e4, not because he thought Kramnik would want a draw and play e5, but precisely because he felt Kramnik would respond with c5 to keep his (winning) chances alive and play the game on Anand's turf (Sicilian), which is what ended up happening. Anand doesn't like to appear predictable, which is why I'm not sure if he will stick to any one particular opening with black. |
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Feb-08-10
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| spawn2: Am betting all my chessbucks for Anand!!
Go Viswanathan! |
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| Feb-08-10 |
| ConLaMismaMano: <I think what's more important than popularizing an opening is to look at the kind of results you have had with it overall.> True but it has nothing to do with what i want to know. My curiosity was about fashion/popularity; i don't care about what's more important, that's another subject. |
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| Feb-08-10 |
| ConLaMismaMano: <Am betting all my chessbucks for Anand!!> Me too. I'm rooting for him vs. Topalov. |
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Feb-08-10
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| badest: <ConLaMismaMano: <Am betting all my chessbucks for Anand!!> Me too. I'm rooting for him vs. Topalov.> Rooting is one thing ... betting another ... don't bet with your heart ;) |
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| Feb-08-10 |
| bharatiy: and you don't bet on your face "Badest"!! I think one thing is sure we will not see caro kann as a surprising weapon or defensive tactic. Though I would love to see French, that will be very interesting. BTW do we know who are the seconds? |
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Feb-08-10
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| Bondsamir: OK here's the conclusion; Anand was inspired by Shakira and he popularized the bellydancing while Kramnik was inspired by lara Croft and popularized resident evil. |
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| Feb-08-10 |
| bharatiy: So many Topalov faces on Anand's page. Spying!!! |
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Feb-08-10
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| badest: http://topsport.ibox.bg/news/id_153...
(sorry guys Google translate or something)
Aruna is in Sofia ... |
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Feb-08-10
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| badest: <bharatiy: and you don't bet on your face "Badest"!!> :D ... well ... if the odds are right ... maybe ... <seconds> Cheparinov (of course) but after that ... ? |
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