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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
May-27-07
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| chancho: This Aronian fella can play some ass kicking chess. |
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May-27-07
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| Eyal: <ajile: 26..Rf3?! I don't have my board handy. How does Black win this after 27.gxRf3?> 27.gxf3? Rxf3 (27...Qxh3? 28.f4) 28.Nf4 Bxf4 29.Qd5+ Kh7 30.Qf5+ Qxf5 31.exf5 Be5/Rb3; or 30.Qh5 Rxh3 31.Ra7 Qe6 32.Re7 Qxe7 33.Qf5+ g6 34.Qxh3 Be5 (35.Rb1 Bxb2 36.Rxb2 Qg5+ picking the rook with the next check). In both cases White's position is hopeless. |
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May-27-07
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| Eyal: Instead of 27.Ra3?, turning the black c4 pawn deadly after the exchange of rooks, Carlsen might have put up more resistance by 27.Qd5+ Kh7 28.Rad1. |
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| May-27-07 |
| Sydro: I would love to see this game annotated.
Impressive game by Aronian. |
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: <Eyal: <ajile: 26..Rf3?! I don't have my board handy. How does Black win this after 27.gxRf3?>
27.gxf3? Rxf3 (27...Qxh3? 28.f4)>
Oh, I see now, it is a <RELOADER>: 26 ...  f7-f3!? 27 g2xf3? f8xf3. The White g2-pawn <DEFENDS> the f3-square only -once-, so it cannot keep -both- the Black f7-rook -and- the Black f8-rook out of f3. |
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: Notice how Aronian as Black plays 8 ... a8-b8!?, which is becoming all the rage in these Closed Ruy Lopez positions. In fact the most recent <SOS> from <New In Chess> has an article on this very move, I believe. |
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: My last comment is off by one move. <SOS-6> covers the move 9 ... a8-b8!? in the Closed Ruy Lopez resulting after 9 h2-h3. See <http://www.newinchess.com/games/SOS...; for some details. |
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| May-27-07 |
| Hot Logic: Carlsen opened like a Yahoo!chess blitz game and Aronian quickly picked up an advantage. Throughout the entire game Aronian played for and had all the classical advantages, better piece activity, better centre, better pawns, more space, better minor pieces. He uses his advantages very well too - using all sorts of threats to limit Carlsen's moves and build up his position, for example, Rf3 to create a passed c pawn was wonderful. A very clear win for Levon. |
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| May-27-07 |
| TheGladiator: <Hot Logic>
Wow, amazing understanding on your part. More hot air than hot logic, imnsho. <Throughout the entire game Aronian played for and had all the classical advantages, better piece activity, better centre, better pawns, more space, better minor pieces.> "Throughout the entire game"? Magnus handed over the advantage with 20 d5?! - before that move it was pretty much equal - Magnus gave away the white advantage with 17 d4?!, upto which white's position was completely healthy. After 20 d5 there followed a sequence of 4-5 forced moves, then we saw Rf3!? and Magnus made the final blunder with 27 Ra3?. After that move, any 2600+ GM in the world would be able to convert as black, no matter the opposition. So, strong solid game by Aronian, and two weak moves and one blunder by Magnus. Rf3!? was interesting, maybe even !, but also <notyetagm> is a bit too enthusiastic IMHO. So Aronian found two strong moves between move 20 and 27, and Magnus played a bit tame today, but that's about it :) PS! <notyetagm> - even though you need to write things in CAPITAL LETTERS, or rather <CAPITAL> to understand a chess game, it still <anoymetgt> - that is, it <ANnOYs> <Me> <The> <Gladiator> <Totally> ;) Maybe because your points usually are relevant for players below FIDE 1800 or something. :) |
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| May-27-07 |
| Sydro: After the suggested defense after 26...Rf3
27.Qd5+ Kh7 28.Rad1 Qc8
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.2 (21 ply)
1) (-0.57) 29.Qxb5 Rb3 30.Qd5 Rxb2 31.f4 Rxe2 32.fxe5 dxe5 33.Qxe5 Qb8 34.Qxb8 Rxb8 35.Rf2 2) (-0.75) 29.Nd4 Rxh3 30.Ne6 Bh2+ 31.Kh1 Rh4 32.Nxf8+ Qxf8 33.Qf5+ Qxf5 34.exf5 Be5+ 35.Kg1 Bxb2 3) (-0.78) 29.Ng3 Bxg3 30.fxg3 Rxf1+ 31.Rxf1 Qc5+ 32.Qxc5 Rxf1+ 33.Kxf1 dxc5 34.g4 Kg6 35.Ke2 Kf6 |
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May-27-07
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| luzhin: Notyetagm, 34..Ra4 is not a zugzwang-enforcing move at all. If it didn't actually threaten to capture the e pawn then Carlsen could happily move his King from side to side. It is true that Carlsen can defend his e pawn, or his a pawn, but not both: if 35.Qd5 then 35..Qxd5 36.exd5 b4 wins on the spot. |
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: <TheGladiator: .... Rf3!? was interesting, maybe even !, but also <notyetagm> is a bit too enthusiastic IMHO.> Yes, Aronian is such a strong tactician that I first thought that 26 ... f7-f3!? was some kind of superGM tactical thunderbolt worthy of !!. But it's not. Notice how I changed my notation for the move from !! to !?. |
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: <TheGladiator: ... Maybe because your points usually are relevant for players below FIDE 1800 or something. :)> That would include me.
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: From www.chessninja.com:
<Aronian outplayed Carlsen on the black side of a Spanish in what Garry Kasparov called a very nice game by the Armenian. 26..Rf3! was quite a blow, although 27.Qd5+ Kh7 28.Rad1 looks a lot more active than what Carlsen tried.> So the proper annotation for 26 ... f7-f3! is in fact the "!" symbol. Kasparov/Mig have spoken, so that is that. |
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: From http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/eve... <Carlsen didn't get much out of the opening and after a misjudged break in the centre was mown down with Aronian's 26...Rf3!! being a particularly attractive idea.> Analysis of the critical move 26 ... f7-f3!!, given !! by IM Malcolm Pein: <27.Ra3 [27.Qd5+ Kh7 28.Rad1 Qc8 Intending Rxh3; 27.gxf3 Rxf3! 28.Rfd1 Qxh3 with Bh2 to follow.; 27.gxf3 Rxf3 28.Nf4 Bxf4 29.Qd5+ Kh7 30.Qf5+ Qxf5 31.exf5 Be5 32.Ra2 Rb3 33.Rb1 c3  ] > IM Pein's annotations
<Carlsen,M (2693) - Aronian,L (2759) [C84]
WCh Candidates s/f Elista RUS (1), 27.05.2007
[IM Malcolm Pein]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.d3 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.a4 Rb8 9.axb5 axb5 10.Nc3 0-0 11.h3 Nb4! An original way to organise c7-c5 [11...Be6 12.Nd5 Bxd5 13.exd5 Nd4 14.Nxd4 exd4 15.Qd2 Ra8 16.Rxa8 Qxa8 17.Re1 Re8 18.Qb4 Bf8 19.Bg5 Rxe1+ 20.Qxe1 Qe8 21.Qxe8 Nxe8 22.g4 Nf6 23.Kg2 Be7 24.Bd2 Kf8 25.Ba2 Nd7 26.f4 h6 27.Kf3 Bh4 28.Ba5 1/2-1/2 Jedryczk a,K (2321)-Zeberski,J (2422)/Wroclaw POL 2006/The Week in Chess 600] 12.Ne2 [12.d4 c5; 12.Bg5 c5 13.Bxf6 Bxf6 14.Nd5 Nxd5 15.Bxd5 Qc7 16.Qd2 1/2-1/2 Mellenthin,H (1762)-Vogel,W (1654)/Bad Sooden 2005] 12...c5 13.Ng3 Be6 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.c3 Nc6 16.Re1 Qd7 17.d4?! White should be trying to organise b2-b4 and Qb3 as he does in some lines of the Anti Marshall 8.h3 or 8.d3. 17...exd4 18.cxd4 c4! Nb4-d3 looms 19.Bg5 h6 20.d5 exd5 21.Bxf6 Bxf6 22.Qxd5+ Rf7 23.Qd2 Ne5! 24.Nxe5 Bxe5 Black has superior minor piece, mobile queenside pawns and a kingside attack 25.Ne2 [25.Nf5 d5] 25...Rbf8 26.Rf1 [26.f3 Rxf3 27.gxf3 Qxh3 28.f4 Rf6 29.fxe5 (29.Ra3 Rg6+ 30.Rg3 Rxg3+ 31.Nxg3 Qxg3+ 32.Kf1 Qf3+ 33.Kg1 Bxf4  ) 29...Rg6+ 30.Kf2 Rg2+ 31.Kf1 Qf3#] 26...Rf3!! 27.Ra3 [27.Qd5+ Kh7 28.Rad1 Qc8 Intending Rxh3; 27.gxf3 Rxf3! 28.Rfd1 Qxh3 with Bh2 to follow.; 27.gxf3 Rxf3 28.Nf4 Bxf4 29.Qd5+ Kh7 30.Qf5+ Qxf5 31.exf5 Be5 32.Ra2 Rb3 33.Rb1 c3 ] 27...Rxa3 28.bxa3 Qc6 29.Nd4 [29.f4 Bf6 30.Qd5+ Qxd5 31.exd5 Rc8 with Rc5 and c3 coming] 29...Bxd4 30.Qxd4 Ra8 31.Ra1 c3 32.Qb4 Qc5 33.Qb3+ [33.Qxc5 dxc5 34.f4 b4 ] 33...Kh8 34.Ra2 Ra4 35.Re2 Rxa3 36.Qd1 Ra8 0-1
>
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May-27-07
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| notyetagm: <Hot Logic: ... Throughout the entire game Aronian played for and had all the classical advantages, better piece activity, better centre, better pawns, more space, better minor pieces. > IM Pein seems to agree with you. His comments below.
<24.Nxe5 Bxe5 Black has superior minor piece, mobile queenside pawns and a kingside attack > |
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May-28-07
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| Ulhumbrus: The first questionable move is 6 d3. The objection to d3 on the White side of a closed Ruy Lopez is that it puts less pressure on Black and gives him more freedom. To give one example, Black can play ...Be6 without having to worry about d5 in reply. Aronian does play ...Be6 here. The next questionable move is 14 Bxe6?!. This has given White good results, but the reason for this may be that Black has not so far chosen the right answer to d4. Black does have central pawn superiority, so how does Black make it count, after d4 by White? After 17 d4 the answer may be to play 17...exd4! 18 cxd4 e5! removing White's advantage in space. On 18 dxe5 dxe5 Black's Q side pawn majority is mobile while White's King side pawn majority has still to be freed. After 18...c4?! the right course for White may be to free his f pawn to advance either by 19 Be3 followed by Nd2 or else after 19 Bg5 h6 by 20 Be3 followed by Nd2. Instead Carlsen played 20 d5?! and Aronian gained the advantage. Now Aronian jeopardized his advantage by trying to attack the King side instead of playing for ...b4 and ..c3. As a result the pawn sacrifice 26 f4! might have saved White. After 26 Rf1 Aronian proceeded to win. |
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May-29-07
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| notyetagm: The tactic 26 ... f7-f3!! is called a <RELOADER>: the White g2-pawn <DEFENDS> the f3-square only once so it cannot keep out both the Black f7-rook -and- the Black f8-rook. Aronian's main idea was to replace one rook on f3 with the other after 26 ... f7-f3!! 27 g2xf3? f8xf3!. Aronian's 26 ... f7-f3!! and continuation 27 g2xf3? f8xf3!
click for larger view
click for larger viewFor another great example of this <RELOADER> theme, and on the same square to boot, see Spassky's incredible 28 ...  f6-f3!! in G Andruet vs Spassky, 1988. There Spassky intended to <RELOAD> on the f3-square with his e5-knight after 28 ... f6-f3!! 29 g2xf3  e5xf3+, forcing mate. Spassky's 28 ... f6-f3!! and continuation 29 g2xf3? e5xf3+
click for larger view
click for larger view |
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May-29-07
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| notyetagm: These two examples graphically highlight the plight of the most <OVERWORKED> pawn on the board, the <KNIGHT PAWN> in front of the castled king position.
Here Black threatens the f3-square not once but twice with his rooks while also threatening the h3-square with his queen. What is keeping these three(!)
Black pieces out of squares near the White g1-king. <ONLY THE WHITE g2-pawn!>. Can the White g2-pawn keep the Black f7-rook out of f3, keep the Black
f8-rook out of f3, -and- keep the Black d7-queen out of h3? Of course not. The White g2-pawn in the kingside castled position is the most <OVERWORKED> pawn on the board because it must <DEFEND> the f3-square,
<DEFEND> the h3-square, <BLOCK> the g-file, <BLOCK> the a8-h1 diagonal, and <BLOCK> the h3-f1 diagonal. Of course, it can perform
only one of these tasks. And since it <DEFENDS> the f3- and h3-squares only one time, this singular coverage of the f3- and h3-squares
makes them ideal for the <RELOADING> tactic, Aronian's 26 ... f7-f3!! and Spassky's 28 ... f6-f3!!. |
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| May-29-07 |
| TheGladiator: <notyetagm: IM Pein seems to agree with [Hot Logic]. His comments below.> What I reacted to, was the phrase "throughout the entire game" - while my point was that this feature was relevant for about 4 moves, after which the position was dead lost for white. 20 d5? (?!) gave Aronian this advantage after a forced sequence of moves. I do indeed agree that Aronian had those pluses for those vital moves. See what I wrote: <"Throughout the entire game"? Magnus handed over the advantage with 20 d5?! [...]After 20 d5 there followed a sequence of 4-5 forced moves, then we saw Rf3!? and Magnus made the final blunder with 27 Ra3?. After that move, any 2600+ GM in the world would be able to convert as black, no matter the opposition.> If 3-4 moves in the middle game are "the entire game", then fine, but it isn't, and so <Hot Logic>'s comment is a grave inaccuracy, overemphasizing Aronian's part in the events that took place. At the point which Magnus should've realized that he had nothing and therefore should've opted for a draw, he came up with 20 d5? which gave him the worse position. Not a very wise choice, IMO. And as an evaluation of the POSITION (not of the entire game) arising after the exchanges following d5, Pein's evaluation applies, and of course I agree. <<TheGladiator: ... Maybe because your points usually are relevant for players below FIDE 1800 or
something. :)>
That would include me.>
Which is perfectly fine :) It still <anoymetgt> :P |
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May-29-07
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| Chessmensch: Pein has a somewhat different commentary (than that noted by notyetagm) in his Telegraph Chess Column on May 29. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/mai... |
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| May-29-07 |
| slomarko: <TheGladiator> for you 90% Carlsen's losses is coz he "didnt want a draw" and played some bad move coz he went for more. comical. |
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May-31-07
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| Maxim Dlugy: This line doesn't really seem to offer White much. Can White really be better after 14...fe6? A very nice win by Aronian. |
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| May-31-07 |
| Hot Logic: TheGladiator:
You are free to disagree with my opinions but please be reasonable in your interpretations. When I say "throughout the entire game" I obviously do not mean the position after:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7
I said Carlsen's opening looked like Yahoo blitz because he avoided the main lines where White keeps the initiative. Aronian then gives him a 'lesson' by using classical themes. Anyway Aronian played for classical advantages throughout the entire game with moves like 13.Be6 (a simple move with great results - I'm always happy if I can play a move like this :) ). I watched the game live and could see move by move Aronian winning by accumulating small advantages here and there. I also said Aronian uses his advantages well - if he gives anything up he insisted on gaining something else for it, all the while improving his position (note battery on f-file, refer back to 13...Be6). You can be your own judge whether Aronian GOT the advantages he played for, just take a look at the board. The truth is that I'm not a particularly strong player and probably enjoyed the game because black's ideas are so clearly visible. I still stand by every word I wrote. |
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Jun-15-07
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| Mateo: <Ulhumbrus> <the pawn sacrifice 26 f4! might have saved White.> How? After 26...Bxf4 27.Nxf4 Rxf4, Black seems to have very good prospects. Black won a pawn, but he has some problems with his d6 pawn. However, Black threatens to invade the 7th rank and his queen side majority could become dangerous. For instance, 28.Qd5+ R8f7 (protecting the Queen, if e5) 29.Rad1 Qa7+ (it could be useful to put the King in the corner if some Queen trade occurs) 30.Kh2 Qb7. |
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