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Aug-31-13
 | | Domdaniel: Officially a draw now. But Kasparov thought White missed a chance earlier. |
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Aug-31-13
 | | OhioChessFan: Thanks to CG.C |
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| Aug-31-13 | | Ulhumbrus: Karpova: Kasparov: <I see no reason why White is better> White has a rook on the seventh rank, a powerful bishop that is the equal at least of the knight and a lead in development. However his king side pawn majority is doubled and blockaded, crippled in fact. Overall it is Black who is playing to draw. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | poppajoe: game ended in draw |
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Aug-31-13
| | OhioChessFan: I'm still not convinced on 19. Rc1. Alas, I don't have my silicon crutch to answer that for me. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | lost in space: <<Ohio:> <lis> yep, Re7 was the drawing move. Well done by Kramnik. Wonder how aggressive he would be with next White> ohh, I thought it is already over. 4 games? |
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| Aug-31-13 | | Sihlous: Houdini on the chessdom analysis had 15. cxd7 putting white at +0.7...After 15. bxa3 I think the highest was around +0.39...Kramnik knows how to hold a draw. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | csmath: In my view Andreikin misses likely win:
15. cxd7 Bb4
16. Bb5 Qc7
17. Qb3 Ba5
18. 0-0 a6
19. Be2 Bxc3
20. Qxc3 Qxc3
21. bxc3 Rfd8
22. Bf3 Ra7
23. Bc6 Kf8
24. Rfe1 Nxd7
All natural moves though not forced.
This is now a critical position. My plan for white is to bring king to queenside to harrass black pawns and at the same time advance pawns on the kingside that will decide the game. 25. Rd6 b5
26. g3 Rc7
27. f5 f6
[natural move to create outpost for knight that should be able to jump with check if white king comes close. It also creates a vent for black king] 28. Kf1 [the beginning of the plan]
28. ...Kf7
29. Re2 Kf8
30. Red2 Kf7
31. Re6+ Kf7
32. Ke1 Ra7
33. Kd1 Rc7
34. Kc2 Ra7
[I cannot find any other useful move for black]
35. Kb2 Rc7
36. Ka3 Kf8
37. f4
[second half of the plan]
Black has now two main choices.
(A) This is immediate fight:
37. ... Rdc8
38. Bxd7 Rd8
39. Kb4! Rxd7
40. Rxd7 Rxd7
41. Rxa6 Rd3
42. Rb6 h5
43. Rxb5
Lost rook ending.
OR
(B) trying to hold on:
37. ...a5
38. Red6 [the threat is R2d5] b4
39. cxb4 axb4
40. Kb2! Ke7
41. g4 h6
42. h4 Ra7
43. g5 Rc7
44. Ba4 b3
45. Re6+ Kf8
46. Rd3 Ra7
47. Bb5! Rb7
48. Rd5 Ra7
49. Re4!
Here again black has to basic choices:
(B1):
49. ...Ra2+
50. Kxb3 Ra7
51. Kc3
[the job on queenside is done, now back to kingside] 51. ...Rc7+ 52. Kd4 Rc1
53. Ke3 Re1+
54. Be2 Ra1
55. Re6
and black is hopeless.
OR (B2):
49. ...Re8
50. Red4 Nb6
51. Rd6 Rb8
52. gxh6 Kg8
53. Rd8+! Rxd8
54. Rd8+ Kh7
55. hxg7 Kxg7
56. Kxb3 Re7
57. Bc6 Re1
58. Kb4 [knight is in distress]
58. ... Rc1
59. Be8 Nc4
60. Rd3! [knight has to be controlled here] Re1
61. Rd7+ Kf8
62. Kxc4 [Bg6 leads to a draw]
62. ... Kxe8
[62. ... Rxe8?, 63. h5 Kg8, 64. Kd5 is hopeless]
63. Ra7 Rd1
64. h5 Kf8
65. h6 Kg8
66. Rg7 Kh8
67. Rg6
and I was almost sure this was a winning rook ending. Actually it is only a draw:
67. ... Kh7!
is the only move.
Would Kramnik be able to find the saving sequence - I have my doubts. This is all not forced but I think the ideas are straightforward. There are many places where either side can make mistake. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | csmath: Interesting that Kasparov immediate reaction was that 15. cxd7 should be played. He was on playchess at the same time I was and joined the broadcast on the WC tournament server. Nigel Short was of the same opinion and very decisively so. Clearly there was something wrong with Andreikin's assessment of the position or his calculations ... or was he just afraid that Kramnik had something in his sleeve? This is also the second time on this tournament that Andreikin shows some shaken confidence, the first time with Dreev which he overcame. In this game Kramnik dance on the edge of abyss, we can certainly recognize his courage to initiate complex tactical resolution which paid off due mostly to lack of determination on Andreikin side. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | hellopolgar: There is no way that Dmitry Andreikin can do what Kasparov could not. |
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| Aug-31-13 | | devere: "There is no way that Dmitry Andreikin can do what Kasparov could not." You mean he can't play a match with Shirov? |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Hesam7: <csmath> how does White make progress after 15 cd7 Bb4 16 Bb5 Qc7 17 Qb3 Qf4 18 O-O a5 19 Nd5 Nd5 20 Qd5 Rad8 21 Rd4 Qf6 22 Rfd1 g6 23 g3 Kg7
click for larger viewBlack is reduced to passive defense (same as the line you posted) but I don't see how White can improve his position. In this line I am very skeptical of 19 Nd5 but then in the position after 18...a5 
click for larger viewBlack has an actual threat (...Ng4) which must be dealt with, for example 19 Rfe1?? Ng4 loses. White can play f3, g3, h3, Rd3 & Ne2 (I may have missed some other move, I am not sure) but none of them seem to be winning despite enjoying a big advantage. PS: I have seen some commentary where White plays the Be2: 15 cd7 Bb4 16 Be2 Qc7 17 Qb3 but after 17...Qf4 18 O-O a5 this really does not make a difference to the problem above. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Hesam7: So where did Kramnik go wrong? Here are my candidates: (A) 10...Nbd7, maybe he should have opted for 10...Qc8 11 Ndb5 Nbd7 12 Bd6 Qd8 13 cd5 Nd5 14 Nd5 Bd5 instead. (B) 11...e5, the boring 11...Nd5 12 Nd5 Bd5 looks better. 
click for larger viewHere White has 13 Nc6, 13 e4 & 13 Bb5, but in all of these lines Black does vastly better than the game. (C) 14...Ba3 looks spectacular but the modest 14...Bd6 seems better: 15 cd7 Qd7 16 Be2 a6 17 O-O b5 18 Bf3 Rac8 19 g3 Qc7 
click for larger viewWhite is a pawn up but how much does it count? Note that White has to avoid exchanges that land him in a Bishop ending ... |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Hesam7: Again, time might have been a factor, for his first 14 moves Andreikin used 50 minutes and 20 seconds, whereas Kramnik used 24 minutes and 45 seconds. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Nerwal: <So where did Kramnik go wrong?> Maybe black is just slightly worse after 8... cxd4 9. ♘xd4 ♗b7 10. ♖d1 as white pieces are very active. Kramnik didn't want to take risks and play with hanging pawns like in Mamedyarov vs Jakovenko, 2010, but it's quite possible taking on d4 is actually premature like Short suggested... |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Ulhumbrus: If White doea not gain a considerable advantage after 15 bxa3 but does gain a considerable advantage after 15 cxd7 that justifies the choice of 15 cxd7 even if it does not lead to a win |
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| Sep-01-13 | | csmath: <<csmath> how does White make progress after 15 cd7 Bb4 16 Bb5 Qc7 17 Qb3 Qf4 18 O-O a5 19 Nd5 Nd5 20 Qd5 Rad8 21 Rd4 Qf6 22 Rfd1 g6 23 g3 Kg7> I briefly considered leaving pawn on d7 intact but I think that is just too bad that I would not have played it and I think neither would Kramnik. As white I would have never exchanged knight (for a knight) without some concession from black, forget engine evaluations. You can bet neither would Andreikin. 19. Nd5? is a positional error, regardless of what engine says. In this instance Houdini choice is bogus. The reason is simple - exchanging knight for knight is beneficial to black as he is then able to control the queening square with his bishop while white has much harder time to promote with opposite color bishops. This is strict positional reasoning without engine evaluation. Again, absolutely no knight exchange without some concession from black. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | csmath: <If White doea not gain a considerable advantage after 15 bxa3 but does gain a considerable advantage after 15 cxd7 that justifies the choice of 15 cxd7 even if it does not lead to a win> Exactly. It creates incredible problem for black with passer on d7. In terms of practical situation this is almost a lost position as black has to be extremely careful while white could simply keep on rearranging pieces. If the passer is taken as in the sequence I analyzed then black has a fight for his life with little to no risk for white. Obviously Kramnik escaped as Andreikin has given him the least amount of problems. Here is a good question "why Andreikin did not take 15. cxd7"? My thesys is that he lost confidence after the first game. I am sure that he could see the same Nigel Short and Kasparov could see. Kasparov was immediately for cxd7 move and so was Short. Andrekin spent some time calculating and then decided different route that he probably thought was less risky since it leaves black with some (small) development problem which Kramnik solved quite easily. Looking for simple continuation and avoiding complex tactical/positional battle is a mark of low confidence. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Ulhumbrus: On the chessbase website GM Negi gives, amongst other things, 15 cxd7 Bb4 16 Be2 Qc7 17 Qb3!! At the risk of repeating earlier kibitzes here, this prepares the move Nd5! to exchange Black's N on f6 which attacks the d7 pawn for White's N on c3 which does nothing to defend the d7 pawn, so that Black won't be able to overpower the d7 pawn, after 17...Rad8 18 Nd5! Otherwise after 15 cxd7 Bb4 16 Be2 Qc7 17 0-0 Rad8( Negi) Black can overpower the d5 pawn |
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| Sep-01-13 | | csmath: I have read that and the first thing that strikes me there is that Negi's analysis is quite superficial. Exchanging knights on d5 is a clear positional error as white could not expect to be able to make any progress in terms of queening the passer once the opposite color bishops are the only minor pieces left. While black cannot take the pawn he can neither promote it because the black bishop will control the queening square. It is a passive position for black but I do not see how can white make any progress either. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Ulhumbrus: With an extra pawn on d7 one of White's rooks may head for the square e8 after which White's king may advance |
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| Sep-01-13 | | csmath: Again, if black does not eliminate the pawn given a chance he will lose (this is my strong feeling) with knights on board. There are many different roads if you try to sort through it but with knights on board this is most likely easy win. And yes, as you said black plan should be to double rooks on e-file, make sure king has enough vent and to protect pawn with bishop and queen [queen on d-file]. I think this is lost position for black. What Negi proposed on chessbase <15 cxd7 Bb4 16 Be2 Qc7 17 Qb3> is not necessarily winning either. In fact here is one possible continuation:
15. cxd7 Bb4
16. Be2 Qc7
17. Qb3 [Negi's sequence] a5
18. 0-0 Bxc3
19. Qxc3 Qxc3
20. bxc3 Rfd8
21. Bb5 Ra7
22. Rd3 Kf8
23. Rfd1 a4
24. c4 a3
and now looks to me white also has a passer problem. |
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| Sep-01-13 | | Ulhumbrus: <csmath: Again, if black does not eliminate the pawn given a chance he will lose (this is my strong feeling) with knights on board. There are many different roads if you try to sort through it but with knights on board this is most likely easy win. And yes, as you said black plan should be to double rooks on e-file, make sure king has enough vent and to protect pawn with bishop and queen [queen on d-file]. I think this is lost position for black.
What Negi proposed on chessbase <15 cxd7 Bb4 16 Be2 Qc7 17 Qb3> is not necessarily winning either. In fact here is one possible continuation:
15. cxd7 Bb4
16. Be2 Qc7
17. Qb3 [Negi's sequence] a5
18. 0-0 Bxc3
19. Qxc3 Qxc3
20. bxc3 Rfd8
21. Bb5 Ra7
22. Rd3 Kf8
23. Rfd1 a4
24. c4 a3
and now looks to me white also has a passer problem.> In this sequence the move 18...Bxc3!! seems very good, removing the bishop which does nothing to attack the d7 pawn for the knight which threatens to exchange itself for the black knight which does attack the d7 pawn. This suggests that Negi can be wrong. One possible improvement on this sequence for White is 22 Rd6 instead of 22 Rd3, attacking the b6 pawn |
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| Sep-01-13 | | csmath: I think we can all agree that if Kramnik dares to repeat this opening tomorrow he will be facing much harder continuation and I doubt he would survive it. |
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| Jun-18-21 | | tonsillolith: Andrawkin vs Kramdraw |
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