< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·
|Jan-28-17|| ||ColeTrane: I was looking at a very different line. Ncd5 follwed by e6 then Nxg6+..... A few variations Ive tried seems to grab that black queen and maybe Rh8 comes in later.....|
|Jan-28-17|| ||stst: Quite a demand for detailed homework, many lines playable:24.
(A)Ng6+, (B)Qh8+, (C)BxB, (D)e6, (E)exf5
But White has to watch out, anytime the N@c6 leaves this spot, Qa2+ will be fatal.
Get into some details:
(A).....Ke8 (QxN, 25.QxQ Black losing)
26.QxB (threatens Qxe7#) Kd7 (if ... Qf7, 27.Rh8+ Kd7, 28.QxQ Black losing.)
28.Rh7 (threatens Qxb7#) Rd7
29.Qe8+ (i)....Kc7 30.Nb5#; (ii)....Rd8 30.Ne7+ ==> (a)...Kc7, 31.Ncb5#
(b)... Kb8, 32.Qxd8+ Ne8 33.Qxc8#
28.Bg5 … long way to go, W should prevail
25.Nxg6+ (i)…Kf7, 26.Bh6 Rg8, 27.e6+ ===>
31.Ka1….. perpetual +, draw
27.BxB Kc8 long way, fruitless for White
26.Qg8+ Qf8 (if…..Kd7, 27.Be6+ forks Q)
Black K flees
see how MC nails this.
|Jan-28-17|| ||stst: Yeah, somewhat "aweful!" - his style is now pretty clear... slow cooker!! Blood not easily spilt, but the wound gradually deepen.... (Not that good as a POD.)|
|Jan-28-17|| ||RandomVisitor: <Jimfromprovidence>28.f8N+ works as long as black misses 28...Ke8!, winning.|
|Jan-28-17|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: I solved it to the point that White wins the queen. I didn't try to work out whether Black's counterattack would suffice.|
|Jan-28-17|| ||morfishine: <Jimfromprovidence: White tries 28 f8N+ instead> I looked at that but it comes up one tempo short due to the Black threats, nice try I agree|
|Jan-28-17|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <RandomVisitor> <28.f8N+ works as long as black misses 28...Ke8!, winning.>|
Yes, white is out of checks and get mated.
One way is after 29 bxa3 Rxa3+ 30 Kb1 Rda8 31 Na4 Ba2#, below. (31...Rxa4?? 32 Qxg7 is a draw by repetition)
click for larger view
|Nov-04-17|| ||Walter Glattke: 28.-Qf6!? 29.Qg8+ Bf8 30.Rh8 Qxh8 31.Nxh8
Rxd5 32.Nxd5 White wins
|Nov-04-17|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: I looked at the game line, hallucinated some Black threat that wasn't present, and went with a second move of pinning the knight instead. That leaves material fairly even but two Black pieces en prise.|
If Black instead declines the queen, best play I found was
28 Qe5+ Rd6 (retaining the mate threats and trying not to give White a tempo)
29 Qxe7+ Rd7 (ditto)
30 Qxd7+ Kxd7
and White is up a rook and some pawns as he tries to ride out the storm.
|Nov-04-17|| ||PawnSac: < wrap99: Could a strong player look at this game and determine
without knowing that players involved that it was indeed a
game between world-class players and that it had to have been
played after 2000 or even more recently? >|
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. f3 d5 4. cd5 Nd5 5. e4 Nb6 6. Nc3 Bg7 7.Be3
The first occurence of this opening line (3.f3 thru 7.Be3)
Alexander Alekhine vs Efim Bogoljubov
"Grunfailed" (game of the day Aug-15-2013)
Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929), Berlin GER, rd 17, Oct-21
Neo-Grünfeld Defense: Goglidze Attack (D70) · 1-0
in this game black answered 7...Nc6
2 years later (Bled 1931) Bogo played 7...0-0 against AA
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.f3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nb6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Be3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6
has been one of the long standing main lines in this opening since 1931 !
9.0-0-0 has been known since 1940
9...e5 has been the old main line since 1949 or so..
I'm sure this has been played at lower levels, probably in GM play at some point prior, but the database shows this after 1999 in professional classical chess.
This is the first inkling that it may be a modern game.
9...Qd6 is also a more recent try..
so to answer your question, YES.
A stronger player familiar with the history of this opening
and who plays it from the black side will know immediately that
it is a modern treatment of the system.
As for recognizing they are "world class" players?
YES to that also. The treatment of the middle game, depth of planning, and
consistency of play is clear evidence these are stronger GM's.
|Nov-04-17|| ||malt: As I've never seen this game,
<Morfishine:Too well known of a game>
30.Q:e5+ deflecting the strong knight on c4, as the monarch seems to be in a delicate, situation.. 30..N:e5
30...Kc8 loses 31.B:b3 ab2++ 32.K:b2
|Nov-04-17|| ||offramp: Today's position reminded me of this old one.
click for larger view
Druganov-Panteleev, Corres 1956, a variation.
Black is to play and win.
|Nov-04-17|| ||malt: Does <28.dc6+ > work rather than 28.f8N+|
|Nov-04-17|| ||agb2002: A bit famous, recent and recycled.|
|Nov-04-17|| ||agb2002: <offramp> 1... Qd1+ 2.Rxd1 Ne2+ 3.Bxe2 Nb3#.|
|Nov-04-17|| ||offramp: <agb2002> Perfect! Well done, it's quite a toughie.|
|Nov-04-17|| ||patzer2: Desperate times call for desperate measures. With White facing the prospect of being mated with 31...axb2+ 32. Kb1 Ra1#, the desperado called for is the sham Queen sacrifice 30. Qxe5+! which solves today's Saturday (30. ?) puzzle.|
After the obvious reply 30...Nxe5, it's also clear White needs to capture the available free piece with 31. Bxb3.
But where do we go from there? If Black now plays the expected 31...Ned3, I had planned to respond with 32. bxa2 ± to +- (+2.20 @ 21 ply, stockfish 8). Much stronger though is 31...Ned3 32. Nb5+ +- (+6.47 @ 21 ply, Stockfish 8.)
For a general impression of the combination, it's not so difficult to see that White will give up the exchange with two pieces for a Rook. What's difficult to see is that this exchange, coupled with White's monster passed pawn advantage in numbers on the King-side is so clearly decisive.
P.S.: For a Black improvement, <RV>'s <Komodo 10.1> analysis suggesting 15...N6d5 = (+0.15 @ 26 ply) looks good.
|Nov-04-17|| ||JeffH1165: Yeah, the Queen sac seemed to be the best way to diffuse the nasty pawn on a3 giving check. My chess app didn't get it either. It suggested Kb1.|
|Nov-04-17|| ||chrisowen: Mob cotus vents u luv e5s eggsus vimus vants e5s entrap lug b3s bails u b2s ban u b2s bag d3s dills u b1s bag u c1s cap u c1s car c8s cainwinch von guv e6s effects log gaves 35.Na4 nob dangs vim 5 gains bad lag e6s efforts lag faints 36.f4 bad dig fails vis 5 6 gains bad win had ave vis mob cotus e5s eggsus equate bad vim plight drink fades vis his hew lanky new joy guv q x its old hen fun vow vis its holes vis fun guv nub felons von guv vis huh uhs flues hon fuels hon hen fouls hones e5s equate vow vis mob cotus e5s eggsus bot tom backs cos top pos hmm vim pin plight larks drink fades vis had wells fakes ies width works key new joy jinks guv q x its old hen fun vow guv nub vis coo 30.Qxe5+ eggsus lints balls bills bat bints bit oks von guv vis baltic tab talls tibia bills e5s ecumen either hoods rooms e5s effigy rate vimus eggsus eakins equate errand entrap banes canes danes fanes gen janes kanes lanes daves dates dares feels goods likes fengshui gaffs gifts fig fag gee fangs heels hotels visavis hosts bee his vents coo 30Nxe5 31.Bxb3 axb2+ diffs egg u bad man vis its to 32.Kxb2 Nbd3+ dah hod ducks vis bag 33.Kb1 Nxc1 34.Rxc1 Kc8 35.dxe6 nod vet effects vis log gaves 35.Na4 nob dangs vim 5 gains bad lag eggus 35bxe6 goods effects vis lag faints 36.f4 bad dig fails vis 5 6 gains bad win had ave vis mob cotus e5s eggsus equate bad vim micks licks calls clink cam mills vow vis click crimp vim divide cream rad darks eggswhile goods build vim wadus big maids binus nab dislocate bands man dangs bus backs cad rules car ive winch bands ampus haves bad rabble vides backs did vet rad darks fumes batch car bam vim chins vis dab dad bar rabble i jar batch baits calls vis bints vim bat tab bit oks von guv vis baltic dadus cad hid had hicks hacks bid badus ums get gab bands bag vimus ave mob cotus e5s equate;|
|Nov-04-17|| ||njchess: Shockingly, I got this one! At 1st glance, I was a little overwhelmed. Black has mate in two with a LOT of material around the White king.|
Since there was no obvious defense for White, move 30 had to check the Black king to forestall the seemingly inevitable. That limited the options to QxB+ or Bb6+. Since the latter offered no advantage, QxB+ it was. 30. QxB+ NxQ (any other move seems bad for Black) 31. BxB PxP+ 32. KxP is now possible Nd3+ 33. Kb1 KxR 34. RxN
The dust has settled. Black's rooks are basically useless, his knight has no safe squares and his king is exposed. Add to White's 7th rank pawn and it's essentially over for Black. At 1st, I thought I screwed up since it seemed too easy, since it all was fairly forced, but no.
|Nov-04-17|| ||psmith: <offramp> Nice one.|
I think 1... Qd1+ 2. Rxd1 Ne2+ 3. Bxe2 Nb3#
|Nov-04-17|| ||psmith: Oh, I see <agb2002> beat me to it. :)|
|Nov-04-17|| ||mel gibson: Never got this one.
Both players just seemed to ignore each others threats.
The computer agrees with the text move.
White has to lose his Queen to win.
|Nov-04-17|| ||Jimfromprovidence: Myself, I went with 30 Nb5+ first. It wins material, (about a piece) but it is only about half as good as the text move (per an OLGA Stockfish analysis)|
Just to note that white cannot get cute and try to save the queen by 30 bxa3?
click for larger view
Now either 30...Bxc3+ or 30...Rxa3+ and black can draw by a perpetual.
|Nov-04-17|| ||waustad: I wonder if I remembered it, because when I looked I got the first 6 plies quickly.|
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