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Mar-01-17		chessgames.com: <<changed Site tag from "?" to "Plovdiv BUL" -- Stonehenge> Now it says <It> Ribli vs Petrosian, 1983> That's bizarre. I just attempted to fix it back (originally, "It" was the event) and it worked fine. I'm almost tempted to put a moratorium on game edits until I figure out what's going on here. About inconsistencies between the stated tournament name and what the editor value shows, that's an issue that I'm prepared to tackle shortly. The unhelpful answer that MissScarlett recalls is that there are some PGNs where the event in the PGN does not exactly equal the name of the event it is linked to, but I've been hesitant to normalize them because the reason why they became out of synch in the first place is not understood. More effort will go into that shortly.

Mar-01-17		Stonehenge: See also Petursson vs A Frois, 1986

Mar-01-17		Sally Simpson: Whilst getting a game wrongly credited to the Turk corrected to Mephisto Mephisto vs NN, 1770 I have been supplied with 11 games played by Wellington Pulling who had a match with Hugh Alexander Kennedy in 1847. Apparently it was Pulling, often mentioned as a brilliant amateur, who came up with the idea of 4...Qh4 in the Scotch. No page yet for Pulling. This link: https://chess-db.com/public/pinfo.j... gives his DOB and DOD. 1812 - 1866 This link gives the same information and a source: Perigal / Pulling vs W M Popert, 1840 The link to the 11 games are: http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic... Note in some games he called Pulling in others, as was the Victorian way, as Mr.P. or Mr. P******.

Mar-01-17		zanzibar: < I have been supplied with 11 games played by Wellington Pulling ...> but then, <Geoff, Craig, the following eleven games were probably all played by Wellington Pulling, though the evidence for his involvement is greater in some games than others.> What to do about the qualifier "probably"?

Mar-01-17		Sally Simpson: HI Zanzibar, Evidence is pointing stongly towards Pulling. "Sources: Illustrated London News of 6.11.1847, Brighton Gazette of 11.11.1847 and Bell's Life in London of 16.1.1848 (the last of these three versions gives us the surname of Kennedy's opponent). " The other games. give 'W.P-G' as Kennedy's opponent. As you know that is the way the Victorians sometimes did it. Mr. A__ beat Mr. B__. I think you have enough for a Wellington Pulling page. (you may already have one - see below) There are some heavyweight historians contributing to that other thread. I'd not be surprised if more information cropped up soon. Pulling is mentioned here with his 4...Qh4 named after him. https://www.365chess.com/eco/C45_Sc.... ----- Pulling is already here. This lad Pelling and my post in the ECF forum A Wellington Pulling is given as a subscriber to: 'A Selection of Games at Chess, actually played in London, by the late Alexander McDonelll Esq." Selected and Arranged by William Greenwood Walker in 1836. In the 19th game of that book (page 69) McDonnell is giving Knight Odds to Mr. P***** (Pulling?) "The pre-game note adds: "Mr.P. Is one of the most ingenious and imaginative players of the day, and now no one can give him the Knight" I know Miss S. will chew me out for posting a game but I need to. (Remove the White b1 Knight) 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 Bxb4 5. c3 Bc5 6. O-O d6 7. d4 exd4 8. cxd4 Bb6 9. h3 Nf6 10. e5 dxe5 11. Ba3 Nd5 12. Qa4 Nc3 13. Nxe5 Be6 14. Bxe6 fxe6 15. Qc4 Nxd4 16. Rfe1 Ncb5 17. Ng6 Nxa3 18. Rxe6+ Kf7 19. Re7+ Kxg6 20. Qf7+ Kh6 21. Qxg7+ Kh5 22. g4+ Kh4 23. Qh6. This exact game is on page 61 of 'Oxford Encyclopaedia of Chess Games Vol 1 1485-1866 ' by David Levy. the opponent's name in that book is Pelling. Given the introduction in the Walker book. ""Mr.P. Is one of the most ingenious and imaginative players of the day..." Which is so similar to all the other things that are written about Pulling I'm thinking this 'Pelling' (who is he anyway?) is infact our man Wellington Pelling. (1812-1866) Pelling's sole game here: La Bourdonnais vs Pelling, 1830 is also in Levy's Encyclopaedia (page 66) and given the name Pelling. These are the only two 'Pelling' games in that book. Of course there may be a Pulling and a Pelling. I know who Pulling is. Who is '? Pelling' DOB and DOD unknown. I think the name have been mixed up and Pelling is Wellington Pulling. I checked, There is no Pelling listed as a subscriber to the Walker Book. Seemingly everyone and anyone in Victorian chess is....even the Duke of Wellington. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...

Mar-02-17		Tabanus: Before about 1846, Mr. P may be Wolf Meyer Popert.

Mar-02-17		chessgames.com: Regarding this weirdness: <<changed Site tag from "?" to "Plovdiv BUL" -- Stonehenge> Now it says <It> Ribli vs Petrosian, 1983> I'm happy to say I've located the cause of that. It had to do with defunct code that was designed to fix events that it deemed as broken, and was making a worse hash of things than before it tried. I can't guarantee that there isn't damage already present from this, in the form of previous edits being undone by rogue software, but I can say it won't happen any more. Next I should write software to compare the editor notes to what's actually in the PGN and create a list of such discrepancies.

Mar-02-17		perfidious: Just edited a batch of games played at Daugavpils 1978 to reflect the tournament format and had no problems at all.

Mar-02-17		Stonehenge: <perfidious> Otborochnii is just a Russian word. It means qualifying. Otbor is selection.

Mar-02-17		perfidious: <Stonehenge>, I understand, but thought the term superior to 'eliminator', as was used in <CL&R> when they published games from that event in '78.

Mar-02-17		Stonehenge: Well, I'm not sure if you should use Russian when there are English words available but it's not a big deal. As long as all event tags get the same name it's allright. CG can then change them with one push of a button, if necessary. I'm doing a lot of event corrections also and I understand my event tags are no gospel. There are two advantages: 1. It makes the database look a lot better 2. With event tags all being the same, they can easily be changed in one go, if desired. I have no problem whatsoever if my events are going to be changed some day.

Mar-02-17		Sally Simpson: Hi Tabenus, It could be, though some sources give the full names of Kennedy - Pulling match and when not it's W.P-----g. Also makes this one a nice coincidence. Perigal / Pulling vs W M Popert, 1840 I'm not too sure they would call Popart, a German a 'brilliant London amateur'. By the by was Popert's first name not William. https://www.chess.com/article/view/... The main question is who is Pelling Levy's Enc. has him listed as Pelling but the exact same game was played v Wellington Pulling. The only other Pelling in Levy's Enc. is one game v La Bourdonnais. La Bourdonnais vs Pelling, 1830 So it would appear Pelling and Pulling have been mixed up. We need to find a Victorian chess player called Pelling. ECF has more updated details on Wellington Pulling and corrected the DOB. " He was born in 1813, in Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales. He died in April 1866. When the census of 1851 was taken he was visiting his brother Robert Pulling in Penge, Surrey. Ten years later he resided in Camberwell St. Giles, Surrey. His occupation was given, just as his brother, as iron merchant."

Mar-02-17		Tabanus: Hi Sally S, almost certainly Wolf, who called himself "William" while in London. Check out http://www.schachbund.de/news/w-m-p....

Mar-02-17		Sally Simpson: Hi Tabanus, There seems to be a few Poperts popping up. He calls himself William in London but Wolf elsewhere. It's possible. Any other instance of a foreign player Anglicising their name whilst in London. But I am being distracted. Need to find a chess player called Pelling else Pelling is Wellington Pulling and we can turn the bare Pelling page into the Wellington Pulling page with some details.

Mar-02-17		Paint My Dragon: <Sally Simpson/ Geoff>, This has all the makings of a colossal wind-up, and I suspect you are priming us for a big reveal on April 1st. I imagine Scottish farmers, hoping to amuse themselves on those lonely nights in the glens, once tied Wellington Boots to ferrets and raced them against each other for a wager. Sensing our ignorance of unseemly sideshows that probably still grace the Highland Games, you are hoping our efforts to go look for a chess player called 'Wellington Pulling' will result in the greatest April Fools trick ever seen in the Bistro. You have been rumbled sir. Confess now :)

Mar-02-17		jnpope: La Bourdonnais vs Pelling, 1830 Levy cites Walker, which gives Pllg: https://books.google.com/books?id=V... And all the Pll**g games given by Walker appear to Pulling. Levy just made a typo and Pelling should be ignored.

Mar-02-17		Tabanus: I pulled some stuff over at Pelling, hopefully the right place.

Mar-02-17		Sally Simpson: Hi Paint My Dragon, Yes I sometimes feel like the boy who dried wolf but no wind up here. I corrected the Turk to Mephisto and this Pelling and Pulling mix up just happened to surface. My historical errors on purpose are usually so extreme they cannot be nothing but a wind up. In the past I have given space to proving Philidor was a Scot on the run and was really called Andrew Phillips. Discovering the lost Staunton - Morphy games. I have the clock used in the '72 Fischer-Spassky match. Edward Winter is Bill Hartston. Created a whole fictitious tournament with games and photographs of the players receiving their prizes. I (we) put a dog on the Scottish grading list! http://www.chessedinburgh.co.uk/cha... Etc...etc...and sadly...etc... Am currently working on a 1916 postcard from Capablanca to Alekhine where Capa thanks Alekhine for warning him about a pawn sac for Black in the Lopez that Marshall showed Alekhine. but this Pelling to Pulling is not a gag.

Mar-02-17		Sally Simpson: Hi Jbpope "And all the Pll*g games given by Walker appear to Pulling. Levy just made a typo and Pelling should be ignored. So it was a 'pelling' error. (joke unashamedly stolen from the ECF forum who have helped a great deal in sorting out the Pelling to Pulling mix up)

Mar-02-17		Paint My Dragon: <Sally> Yes, those are a bit more imaginative than Wellington Pulling - I'll give you that. I once considered a trip to Switzerland just to knock on Winter's door and point a camera in his face, but I'd have been gobsmacked if Bill Hartston had answered.

Mar-03-17		zanzibar: <Bill Hartston> is surely an inspired guess.

Mar-03-17		zanzibar: There's also Wellington Pudding - of 1st rank status on the squares: http://www.food.com/recipe/chocolat... (Fudge squares that is)

Mar-03-17		zanzibar: I always thought Winter was a great great fan of Capablanca. So, how could Hartston be Winter and write this: <My Chess Career by J.R. Capablanca (London 1920). Compulsory reading for students of chess vanity.> on p189 in the bibliography of his 1985 <The Kings of Chess> (Harpers & Row)?

Mar-03-17		Paint My Dragon: <Zanzi> No, definitely not Bill Hartston. http://www.impalapublications.com/b... This Sam Sloan article describes broadly what is known, although I disagree with the Taylor Kingston link, having corresponded with both people and not finding their writing styles as close as the article suggests. Most pertinent is probably ... <Keene believes that Winter is the same person as a student who was born in 1956. Keene writes, "Actually I really don't follow Edward Winter at all. I just see him as a naughty schoolboy who likes annoying his elders. He was a schoolboy at Cardinal Newman School in Brighton and taught chess by my friend Julian Simpole who could beat him with his eyes closed literally. Winter was about 15 years old when I was already British Champion.>

Mar-03-17		Sally Simpson: It may not be his (or indeed her's) real name. Edward translates in Russian as Edvard. Winter in Russia is Zima A zimaedvard in Russian is 'Red Herring.'

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