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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 143 OF 813 ·
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| Mar-10-17 | | zanzibar: <jn> thought you'd say that. |
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| Mar-11-17 | | zanzibar: RE: <London BCA Challenger Cup (1872)> Let's start with a disclaimer - no sources were hurt (or found) in the making of this post... I believe the bracket dates are available:
<The BCA held an international tournament in London during the summer of 1872, from <June 21th to August 7th. The first game began on June 24th>. The scheduling was informal, and the play was held in three clubs in the city – St. George’s, Westminster, and London City Chess Club. Harding also mentions the Divan as a possible site. <<>>> https://zanchess.wordpress.com/2016... So, June 21 to August 7, 1872.
Nice to know, when perusing archived newspapers. Caveat - this is assuming all three BCA tournaments were simultaneous (see prev post above noting the difficulty sorting out games). Also, what games are generally available(*)?
https://www.365chess.com/tournament... Only five games are included.
And also this:
https://www.365chess.com/tournament... With one game.
(*) If a biographer puts in all the work to make a collection and get it in the TI, <CG> is pretty good. Without a TI entry, <CG> is almost useless. The single most reliable "go-to" source is 365 (unless it's one of Reichhelm's 50). |
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Mar-11-17
 | | chessgames.com: We ran some software on the recent Women's World Championship (2017) to make the game types appropriate with regards to the round numbers. For example A Ushenina vs Tan Zhongyi, 2017 was Armageddon and Khurtsidze vs N Batsiashvili, 2017 was Blitz. If you notice any errors let us know. |
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Mar-12-17
 | | Tabanus: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt... = the Westminster Papers gives a background to the BCA congress 1872, and even provides a complete crosstable for the Challenge Cup. Their Ch. Cup games not in 365Chess: Blackburne vs Puller 1-0 (WP p. 55)
Major Minchin vs Wisker 0-1 (WP p. 175)
Two newspaper Ch. Cup games not in 365Chess:
Wisker vs Blackburne 1/2 in Illustrated London News, 10 August 1872.
Wisker vs De Vere decisive game (16 July) in The Era, 6 October 1872. |
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Mar-12-17
| | Tabanus: <jnpope> I cannot find your game. But let me guess: the chess column of "Land and Water", run by Loewenthal and Wisker (apparently). I cannot find it online. |
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| Mar-12-17 | | zanzibar: <Tab> that's another good guess, but I still would lay odds on The Field. It's too bad nobody's in contact with Gillam, or perhaps Harding, as the two pre-eminent researchers of this period. (I really would like to see that Field scrapbook get online for all researchers to use.) <jn>'s real hope here on <CG> would have been if <Pawn and Two> had the London yellow booklet, or perhaps <Focus>(*). I don't think either do. I guess we can assume <jn> already did an exhaustive search of the online sources (much being from his own site). So it's unlikely either <Tab> or I can offer the concrete help <jn> wants. BTW - in general, it would be helpful to be explicit about what someone has already done when asking for help - to avoid needless duplication (or just to have realistic expectations when double-checking). Of course, that's my opinion, and my general style. _____________
(*) I don't think either can help as they otherwise already would have. I also know I previously asked for help on the Bistro for the main BCA tournament, as I generally receive <Pawn and Two>'s most generous help when available. Checking my notes - I don't see any acknowledgement for this particular tournament. <Focus> is an entirely different kettle of fish - I think he's much more likely to help when <jn> requests it than me (as is his prerogative, of course). I can make my detailed, unpublished working notes to London BCA 1872 available upon request. As a supplemental to the "First Look™" series article, of course! |
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| Mar-12-17 | | Paint My Dragon: If anyone has access and time on their hands, the following sources furnished EDO's coverage of the 1872 BCA Challenge Cup, and so might contain some games, I guess ...
[BLL], 20 July 1872, page 5
[CPC], vol. 3, Aug. 1872, page 121
[Era], vol. 34, 28 July 1872, page 7
[Era], vol. 34, 11 Aug. 1872, page 4
[ILN], vol. 61, 20 July 1872, page 71
[ILN], vol. 61, 10 Aug. 1872, page 143
[ILN], vol. 61, 17 Aug. 1872, page 168
[MP], 22 July 1872, page 2
[ST], 21 July 1872, page 6
[WP], vol. 5, 1 July 1872, page 35
[WP], vol. 5, 1 Aug. 1872, page 49
BLL = Bell's Life London
CPC = Chess Player's Chronicle
ILN = Illustrated London News
MP = Morning Post
ST = Sunday Times
WP = Westminster Papers |
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| Mar-12-17 | | TheFocus: <Zanzibar> <<Focus> is an entirely different kettle of fish - I think he's much more likely to help when <jn> requests it than me (as is his prerogative, of course> I recently said here that I would definitely provide any material that I can. Even for you, Able Researcher Z. But, alas, nothing here to offer this time. |
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Mar-12-17
 | | jnpope: <z>: Yes, I have searched all of the online resources at my disposal, but I didn't want to give anyone the idea that my search was exhaustive. Search engines will only return things they can index and sometimes the online resources don't have a sufficient OCR subtext available for a perfect index. Sadly, London 1872 is not one of the yellow booklets sent to me (as a reward for the work I did helping finding games from the Monte Carlo and Ostend tournaments if my memory serves me correctly). I have also checked The Field through January 1874 and I did not see Owen-De Vere published during that period, but I'll keep poking around... maybe it was published around the time of De Vere's death (and I agree, I really need to add more Field columns to the CA website at some point). My hope is that whomever submitted the game to CG might see our posts here or in the game's thread and divulge the source they used. |
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Mar-12-17
 | | OhioChessFan: Two weeks on, I haven't heard back on the Gary Sanders matter from his home chess club. I might ask our webmaster to check into it. |
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| Mar-13-17 | | WilhelmThe2nd: <jn>, <z>: Owen vs. De Vere, 1872 is in the Chessbase MegaDatabase with the source reference given as Hindle, Jones, The English Morphy?, pg. 117. |
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Mar-13-17
| | Tabanus: Only £3.49 at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Engli.... |
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Mar-13-17
| | OhioChessFan: <Miss Scarlett: I know her real identity, but am not at liberty to say. > Referencing Edward Winter or Miss Scarlett? |
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Mar-13-17
 | | Retireborn: <Able Researcher Z> That reminds me of: Able was I, ere I saw Elba.
No, I am not asking for fake games allegedly played by Napoleon :) |
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Mar-13-17
| | jnpope: Thank you <WilhelmThe2nd>! Now I know where it came from (at least the paper source that fed the digital-db realm). Now if I (or anyone with access to that book) can check to see what source they claim to have found the game. Verification can be a tedious task sometimes... |
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| Mar-13-17 | | zanzibar: Thanks for that reply <Focus>, sorry I wasn't completely up-to-date, but I'm glad to hear. I hope I properly appreciate all the help I receive here on the Bistro, and I definitely am grateful to all your contributions on <CG> (especially having reviewed so many of the early tournaments and seeing who did what). Cheers. |
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| Mar-13-17 | | zanzibar: And a thanks from me to <Wilhelm> as well. I see I did mention that as a potential source of the game. Of course, it's likely a secondary source.
I didn't realize MegaBase was so good about documenting sources. Someday maybe, if my dreams ever come true, I'll get a copy. |
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| Mar-13-17 | | zanzibar: BTW- the Owen--de Vere (1872) game shows up in all the 365, <CG>, <NIC> and <CB> online db's. That generally means that someone on <CG> didn't dig the game out, but instead copied it from one of the other three db's. BTW- are all biographers using the Source tag for submissions these days? (Sure hope so.)
<jn> how about you? I'm still wondering if your home-brew game DB will ever make it into the public realm. |
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Mar-14-17
| | jnpope: <<jn> how about you? I'm still wondering if your home-brew game DB will ever make it into the public realm.> Perhaps. Eventually. Some day. |
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| Mar-14-17 | | Paarhufer: <jnpope: Can anyone here point me to an original source for this game? Owen vs De Vere, 1872> Hindle&Jones quote one variation by Löwenthal from "Land and Water", 17 August 1872. In the header of the game they wrote "B.C.A. Challenge Cup", "St.George's Chess Club, 4th July 1872". Please note that the date differs by 16 days from that here at cg. |
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Mar-14-17
| | jnpope: Awesome. Thanks for that info. |
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| Mar-15-17 | | zanzibar: BDE quoting L&W summary of various BCA 1872:
https://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/... (No game score, of course) |
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| Mar-15-17 | | zanzibar: Kibitzer's Café (kibitz #197073) (Forwarded)
Jonathan Sarfati: These two are the same person: P Vetheraniam and Prince Vetharaniam |
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| Mar-16-17 | | TheFocus: <zanzibar: Thanks for that reply <Focus>, sorry I wasn't completely up-to-date, but I'm glad to hear.> I am sorry but I wish to announce that I will not be able to offer my library for any requests. I have taken a twelve month leave of absence from my job so that I can travel and do chess research. I travel to our country estate on April 1st. (Actually, our country estate is the last trailer on the left, with the garden gnomes in the yard. Watch out for ole Blue. He bites.) When I travel to Cleveland Library, I will make an announcement here. I might be able to look up any research requests. There may be a charge for this but it won't be unreasonable. |
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| Mar-16-17 | | zanzibar: Happy travels <Focus>. And get some good work done in addition to the fun. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 143 OF 813 ·
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