chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
collections   |   new tournaments   |   vote on collections   |   librarian   |   country codes   |   notes   |   edits   |   help
Kibitzer's Cafe
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 249 OF 773 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-17-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <This year marked the shift >

“That year…” would be a bit better.

<and last year's winner Anthony Miles >

“and the previous year’s winner…” would be a bit better.

<The prize money was set at 86,500 Dutch guilders>

This is an American site, in 2018. A reference to what that would be in 2018 American dollars would be nice.

<Later on, some of the players claimed they felt uncomfortable with this man lying on a table in front of them>

“their opponent” sounds a little better to my year than “this man”.

<and before Round 10, four players filed an official complaint. >

Name them!

Sep-17-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <A reference to what that would be in 2018 American dollars would be nice.> I don't know. I'll add it if someone calculates it.

<Name them!> I'll look it up this evening. If it's so interesting.

Sep-17-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: I found a US government currency report for 1985: $1 = 3.755 guilders (as of March 31, 1985).

86,500/3.755 ~= $23,035.95 (1985 value)

$23,035.95 in 1985 → $53,981.62 in 2018

According to: https://www.officialdata.org/1985-d...

Sep-17-18  zanzibar: <Berger tables>

Berger tables are a topic that have some up in other forums. I have a python program that makes easy work of generating a full pairings schedule from a canonical Berger list:

Vladimir Petrov (kibitz #710)

Which took about 20 seconds to do.

This routine comes in very handy at times, and is based on same algorithm FIDE uses for their published pairing tables.

But <Phony> has mentioned other pairing schedules, which are presumably variants of the Berger tables. Does anybody know where any of these variants are described, if so, I could add them in to my routine.

I have noticed some recent tournaments don't exactly follow the canonical Berger schedule - which can be very frustrating (given that they almost do, but not quite).

.

Sep-17-18  zanzibar: RE: <Berger tables>

Side note - reconstruction of Berger list given the full schedule of one player.

Yes, given all the round pairing of any given single player, the entire tournament schedule can be reconstructed - provided the schedule is a canonical Berger pairing.

I don't know a quick closed form method - but I use my round pairings to determine the Berger list iterating through the various allowed Berger order number for the player - stopping when the Berger list matches the tournament games colorings for all the pairs.

(If you ever cared enough to try to do this on your own, then the above paragraph should make sense. If it doesn't make sense then you probably never tried to really work it out - luck you!)

Sep-18-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Game Collection: Tilburg Interpolis 1985 : The four complainants are now named. I think they complained on the playing conditions more than on Miles.

<jnpope> Thanks. I re-calculated (hopefully correct) and added it to the last line before the table instead. So they won about 10,000 USD (in 2018 value) each, not bad!

The "vote on collections" on top of this page is now in red, meaning I nominated it.

<Paint My Dragon> If you have something on Linares 1989 (and 1990 for that matter) you can post it to my for now opened forum.

Sep-18-18  Paint My Dragon: <Tab: Linares 1989>

I’ve not bothered with the round by round commentary, as it seems more centred around pairing changes after Korchnoi’s withdrawal than anything interesting.

There's not much that will be new to you, as the two main controversies dominated the articles, but perhaps some of the finer details, or phrasings from these snippets, will be helpful.

---

“Short scored his first ever victory against Karpov, earning $1,000, but then lost to Ivanchuk and Yusupov.”

“The organizers managed to upset the maximum number of people by refusing to allow Spain’s Miguel Illescas to play (they didn’t want to reduce the Category), and by making Viktor Baturinsky chief arbiter, causing his old antagonist Viktor Korchnoi to withdraw without pushing a pawn.”

<CHESS magazine May 1989, p.5>

---

“The prestigious Spanish tournament has come to fill the ‘black hole’ that used to be February in the international chess calendar.”

Short almost withdrew in January because there was great uncertainty about the dates.

The insistence on Category 16 came from ‘La junta Andalucia’, one of the main sponsors. Most parties involved were critical, and felt that the point of such a tournament was to ensure that a promising Spaniard gets his chance of first class practice. It must have been especially frustrating for Illescas when Korchnoi left and he was still not a welcome substitute, as they would rather proceed with an odd number than reduce the category.

“Illescas received a consolation payment of $3500.”

“Korchnoi walked out after he found that his objection to chief arbiter, Viktor Baturinsky, former KGB colonel and chess disciplinarian, had not been considered.”

“A compromise that Baturinsky, who speaks Spanish, should have nothing to do with Korchnoi’s games, was rejected.”

“… Ivanchuk, 20 … currently, he is doing his army service …”

“The margin of his victory over all the players apart from Karpov, suggests that he is close to joining the two Ks at the top of the chess elite.”

<BCM, April 1989, pp. 141-143>

---

Of course, Korchnoi goes into great detail about this affair in his book <Chess Is My Life>, with the usual conspiracy theories - i.e. Karpov pushed hard for Baturinsky, knowing it would upset Korchnoi, Rentero was complicit etc. He also says that Timman and Short openly supported his objection ... and to the great surprise of Karpov, so did Beliavsky and Yusupov, two people that Karpov may have regarded as 'comrades in arms'. Gulko apparently wanted to support, but was too fearful of losing the tournament if there was some mass withdrawal. Korchnoi appreciated this and was not angry with Gulko, who had supported him in the past (over the boycott, for example).

Korchnoi speculates that had Gulko openly supported him, then it was possible that the consensus would have changed. Baturinsky would then have been forced out and, of course, Karpov would withdraw and the tournament would collapse.

Korchnoi, after leaving Linares, went immediately to the Lugano Open where he had one of his best results. Joint first with 8/9.

Sep-18-18  Paint My Dragon: <Tab> Sorry, missed that comment about your forum. I will remember to use it when I look at Linares 1990.
Sep-18-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <PMD> Thanks! This is helpful, also for my struggle with the English. Posting it here is fine also.

Baturinsky was the arbiter in 1988, perhaps Korchnoi did not know that.

Sep-18-18  Paint My Dragon: <Tab> It isn't clear if Korchnoi had any knowledge of the 1988 arrangements, but he questions whether Rentero was "well enough informed" of the hatred between the two men. Alternatively, he ponders if Rentero knew the score all along, but believed that 'money talks'. To support this thought, he paints a picture of Rentero being a man who liked exerting his financial muscle, and maybe getting a kick out of bossing people around and winning any power struggles. <From pages 193-4 (Edition Olms, 2005) of Chess Is My Life>
Sep-18-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Oh, well.

I'll try to translate and read the Spanish, but probably best to keep a low profile on this in the bio, and leave it to the <kibbutzing> as <jess> calls it :)

Sep-19-18  zanzibar: Many thanks to <sachistu>, we now have the <Scheveningen (1905)> tournament book online:

https://zanchess.wordpress.com/2018...

Interestingly, <Marshall> is listed as coming from <Boston>

.

Sep-20-18  Paint My Dragon: <z>
Boston, Brooklyn.
Brooklyn, Boston.
Let's call the whole thing ripped off.

Good luck if anyone is tempted to check the cg.com version of the games. Some of that text is quite blurred/distorted where it adjoins the centre fold.

The 1905 book was written by Meijer, a Dutchman, and I think reproduced by Moravia Press in recent times.

Sep-20-18  zanzibar: I really would like to see the Google Books collection supplemented, as much as possible, for all the material that's fallen into Public Domain.

I appreciate efforts of people like <jnpope>, <paderamo>, <Jack O'Keefe> and others who help make primary materials accessible to all of us researchers.

.

Sep-20-18  zanzibar: <PmD>
Well, I appreciate the fact that the binding of the book was stressed enough to get those scans. OK, maybe some of the annotations are hard to read at times for a non-Dutch speaker. But I don't think the blurriness is too bad - and one does get another chance on the facing page's scan to see the cease material.

I'll take a challenge to transcribe any given game from <sachistu>'s scan - just tell me which one!

(Phony can attest that these scans are far, far better than many of the newspaper columns we have to work with)

PS - <ripped off> applies to <Moravia Press>'s material too.

I still wonder about Marshall being from Boston though.

Sep-20-18  zanzibar: Let me note one important feature that <sachistu>'s work provides, missing from hard bound copy-

<it's searchable>

That's because he used OCR scanning during the copying. This allows the published PDF to eventually be found and cataloged by Google for its searches.

Maybe not so compelling for this one example, but as a general principle it is critical for complete researching.

Unfortunately this is one area which is sorely lacking in the <O'Keefe> timeline - though eventually all those jpg's could be OCR'ed and turned into PDF's, hypothetically, that is.

Sep-20-18  zanzibar: *cease material* = *crease material*
Sep-20-18  Paint My Dragon: <z> Relax. I was using 'ripped off' in it's lightest sense and with a smile on my face.

Yes, I could probably work all those moves out too, with a chessboard and multiple zooming, but it wouldn't be fun. Maybe my eyes are bad.

No, Boston seems wrong, but Marshall was a Londoner around 1900-1904, on the lead up to this event, so perhaps we should refer to him as British :)

Sep-20-18  zanzibar: <PmD> yes, I thought it a witty ditty the first time I read it though.

But on a second reading I thought it might be misinterpreted (this being the internet and all that) - so I switched into pedantic mode a little (not that I always need encouragement).

And speaking of encouragement, I definitely want to encourage contributors efforts in making this material available - even if it's not 100% perfect.

Speaking of imperfections - I updated the tournament book PDF tonight - including the missing material that <sachistu> sent me, but I mistakenly missed on my first attempt.

It should all be there this time round:

https://zanchess.wordpress.com/2018...

Sep-21-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Game Collection: Linares 1989, 1st version ready.

Not an easy one for me. The text below the table, and some would say parts of the text above it too, is strictly unnecessary. But I could not resist.

Sep-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Game Collection: Linares 1990, 1st version.

A little shorter at least. There was not much drama. Is the English good enough? A sentence or three about Short may be in order.

Sep-22-18  Retireborn: <Tab> The quote about luxury hotel with no TV in rooms should probably be attributed to someone.

Is that Spassky contract really true? One notices that he had a couple of draws somewhat shorter than 40 moves.

"The best game was chosen to be" sounds awkward; I'd replace it with "The best game prize was awarded to".

Sep-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <Retireborn> Thanks.

<should probably be attributed to someone> Done. It was from Leontxo Garcia in Jaque 280 p. 163, "como un hotel de lujo sin televisión en las habitaciones."

<Is that Spassky contract really true?> It's from Garcia in El Pais 18 Feb, "Rentero, organizador del torneo, contrató a Boris Spasski bajo una peculiar claúsula que le obliga a realizar 40 movimientos como mínimo en cada partida."

<I'd replace it with "The best game prize was awarded to".> Done. The text does not say though there was a prize for it.

Sep-22-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Above the crosstable in 89....

<replaced Miguel Illescas Cordoba (#105), who played last year, by Gulko. >

“replaced Miguel Illescas Cordoba (#105), who played the previous year, with Gulko” would be much better.

<Despite negotiations, Korchnoi withdrew.>

Negotiations with, between, who, what?

<Karpov played well as usual>

I tend to avoid “cutesy”, but I would sort of prefer “per usual”. Anyone else want to weigh in?

Sep-22-18  Retireborn: <Tab> I wonder if Spassky was fined for his shorter draws? I recall that Rentero managed to upset quite a few GMs with that sort of thing.
Jump to page #   (enter # from 1 to 773)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 249 OF 773 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2025, Chessgames Services LLC