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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 754 OF 1067 ·
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| Nov-22-06 | | benjinathan: <OhioChessFan> Based on the reults of the last vote, the number of people "on board" the plan is exceeded by those not on board. Granted the people not "on board" are not all on the same page and are unlikely to get there. However, I think Kh2 is a much tougher sell than h3. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | arifattar: Isn't Black's plan here Qb5 Re2? |
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Nov-22-06
 | | OhioChessFan: I realize we must always focus on lines, but there's still room for ideas in this discussion. I think we'll play Kh2 next move, and a Rook to f2 the move after. Which Rook should that be?
When I look at the position, I am struck by our open 3rd rank. Our major pieces have a great deal of latitude to move side to side. I see no good reason to move a Rook off that open rank onto the second rank. And if we do play h3/Kh2, why wouldn't we take advantage of the freedom we just created for the f1 Rook? And while I can't give a line for it, is it unthinkable that 20 ply down the road, we might want a Rook on g3 to recapture a Queen on g5?
The position after h3/Kh2 calls for the f1 Rook to f2. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | Karpova: <OhioChessFan>
I fully agree with you! The Rf3 has a much wider scope than the one on f1 so R1f2 makes more sense. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | jepflast: <benjinathan: I voted h3, but I have a hard time with Kh2 unless the plan is to do what <rookfile> suggests (Rh1). It feels wrong to put the king on a dark square when he has a ds bishop and it is a square open to the diaganol.> Moves like h3, R1f2, and Kh2 at this point really expose the fact that we're in a dominant position. Black has nothing to do now, and I mean absolutely nothing. Any line you try with 29. R1f2 and 30. Kh2 shows that easily, and I think everyone will soon see that we're probably going to win this game, and that's how we're going to do it. Black's last chance was to try to gain control of the 2nd rank.. if we had played Qd3. But we didn't. Now he can try 28...Qb5 to invade at e2, but 29. R1f2 stops him dead in his tracks. But the most telling line, I think, is with 28...Bg7 continuing: 29. R1f2 Re4 (what else? no other move will make a difference) 30. Kh2 f6 (again-nothing) 31. Qd3 Qb7 32. Rc2 (and we've got other options) Black is completely passive. Now put that into your engine and play out the game. Our control of the c-file will win in this case. |
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Nov-22-06
| | OhioChessFan: <Isn't Black's plan here Qb5 Re2?> <arifattar> I realize I'm in a minority here, but I have to agree with <Rookfile> that Qb5 just doesn't look right for Black. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | Karpova: <benjinathan: I realize the plan is a slow build up, but it justs seems too slow. He is going to bust us as we shuffle pieces around one square at a time. That is what I am afraid of anyway. We have set up the rooks on the f file. Isn't it time to do something attacking with them?> The set-up we are suggesting is actually meant to prevent him from <busting> us. He won't be able to do that after our prophylactic measures. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | sandmanbrig: I think that 28 Qf2! will be better than 28 R1f2, tripling up on the f-file forcing black to have to defend against fxg6, and Qf7+. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | pagliacci19: <Dom> yeah, controversy on the jessie gilbert page--sad to see it spill over to this forum too, let's just let it lie, and focus on this game. plenty of other places to debate life's many non-chess-related topics... |
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Nov-22-06
| | OhioChessFan: <Moves like h3, R1f2, and Kh2 at this point really expose the fact that we're in a dominant position. Black has nothing to do now, and I mean absolutely nothing. Any line you try with 29. R1f2 and 30. Kh2 shows that easily, and I think everyone will soon see that we're probably going to win this game, and that's how we're going to do it.> <jepflast> This game has a long way to go, and the Qd3 crowd worries me, but I have thought we were winning for over 2 weeks.
I still wish Chessgames would cut off adding new voters. Many of the pointless comments are made by people who signed on the same day as their post. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | benjinathan: <jepflast> I want to believe in what you are saying, I really do (not that I have played any part in the victory), but we have had difficulty anticipating his moves. Our deliberate play gives him time to do stuff. We will have a better idea from his next move, but I am concerned about Rc6 or Rc4 with the idea of doubling rooks on the c file and making a play for our d pawn. That is one possible reason for his last move and I think it is difficult to defend (albeit easier with the b pawn where it is now). |
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| Nov-22-06 | | benjinathan: Having said that, if he does that we go fxg6 and run the rooksup and the game is over. Maybe you are right. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | Bob726: How many times has it been that a move has won without a majority? |
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| Nov-22-06 | | Bob726: How many times has it been that a move has won without a majority? |
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| Nov-22-06 | | weisyschwarz: <Gufeld Student> Look, take some time away, but don't do anything rash now. This team needs your intellect, and cannot run without it. Just take some time off, and think about the best option. Okay? |
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| Nov-22-06 | | noctiferus: At a Q&D analysis (22 ply), it results that there are at least four other lines which dont'differ so much in eval from the four analysed by RV.
IMO we should take them into consideration, to make sure that no improvement over the raw analysis could surprise us (lot of work for the nexy days!): 3. ² (0.29): 28...Qb7 29.fxg6 fxg6 30.Qg5 Be7 31.Qg4 Bf8 32.Rf6 Qe7 33.Kh2 Bg7 34.Rf7 Qe6 35.Qxe6 4. ² (0.32): 28...Qc6 29.fxg6 fxg6 30.Rf7 Bg7 31.Ra7 Qc4 32.Rf2 Rf8 33.Kh2 Kh8 34.b3 Qxb3 35.Rxf8+ 7. ² (0.36): 28...Rb8 29.fxg6 fxg6 30.Qd3 Ra8 31.Qb3 Qb7 32.Rf7 Re7 33.Rxe7 Bxe7 34.Rc1 Bd8 35.Qb4 8. ² (0.37): 28...Ra8 29.Kh2 Qb7 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.b4 Bg7 32.Qg5 Rf8 33.Rxf8+ Bxf8 34.Qf4 Qd7 35.Qf3 |
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| Nov-22-06 | | jepflast: <benjinathan: ...We will have a better idea from his next move, but I am concerned about Rc6 or Rc4 with the idea of doubling rooks on the c file and making a play for our d pawn.> No problem. Rc4 or Rc6 right now are impossible because we'll just open up the f-file and blitzkrieg him, so let's try 28...Bg7 29. R1f2 Rc4 30. Kh2, all according to plan. Now, for Black to double on the c-file now is still a mistake due to our kingside attack, and he must also defend Qd3 with b3 and Qxa6. Therefore, 30...Qb7, and he's getting more passive all the time. Now we can continue with b3 and Qd3 (or maybe pressure the kingside with h4). But my conclusion is there's nothing to fear from Black anymore. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | Nightranger: <But my conclusion is there's nothing to fear from Black anymore.> And right now, I agree. |
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Nov-22-06
 | | Domdaniel: <pagliacci> I know, I agree, and I'm not going to poke my nose in. <All> Might as well make my public announcement now... From Saturday <twinlark> will be otherwise engaged for a week or more, so I'll be posting the forum notices for a while. The system has to evolve along with the game, but it's all based on volunteers. Some people who gave us time and energy earlier on have had to step back for various reasons. So anyone who feels like hosting a forum - any premium member can set one up, if they haven't already - is always welcome. Two specific ideas have come up recently.
(1) An endgame forum, distinct from but in communication with <Brent Baccala>'s forum, which is focused on engine/tablebase design. This would be a place for people to debate the endings that arise in different lines. I've seen quite a few pieces of good analysis that end with a diagram, and the assertion that 'white must be winning here'. Yet we all know it's not always so simple. We have some strong endgame analysts among us, and I'd like to see a place where their skills could be put to good use. This is an idea whose time has come - endgames will need close work, but it gets lost amid the other stuff here. (2) A sort of standby forum, ready to run with new ideas that turn up here, like 28.b4 did last time. It might have got a better or deeper analysis if it had a forum of its own. This is just a broad ad-hoc idea - it's really more about having a person on standby than holding a forum ready for emergency use. <twinlark> will make the next set of forum announcements, assuming GMAN moves in 24 or 48 hours. You can all cheer for him then, in the approved uproarious Oz manner. After that you'll be hearing more from me again. In the meantime, volunteers and ideas, suggestions etc welcome in my forum. Thanks |
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| Nov-22-06 | | lvlaple: Do I smell overconfidence? People, this is one of the best players in the world playing at the clock setting he is best at. Yes, we appear to have somewhat of an advantage but we are not in the clear. Educating the impulse voters remains our number one priority. Then we have to do something. Being winning is different from winning last time I checked. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | lvlaple: Yay Domdaniel. Hooray for management. (And that isn't sarcasm.) |
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Nov-22-06
| | Domdaniel: <Archives> - <Next thing we know, DomDaniel will turn out to be possessed by a succubus and his sinister plan to undermine the World's efforts against GMAN will be revealed.> She insists that she's an Incubus, but otherwise you're spot on. Actually the plan is to undermine the World itself, as soon as we find the foundations. Under one of the turtle's flippers, we were told... |
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| Nov-22-06 | | jepflast: <lvlaple: Do I smell overconfidence? People, this is one of the best players in the world playing at the clock setting he is best at. Yes, we appear to have somewhat of an advantage but we are not in the clear. Educating the impulse voters remains our number one priority. Then we have to do something. Being winning is different from winning last time I checked.> I don't think we're forgetting who our opponent is, but also I don't think he was expecting such stiff resistance. My guess is that we've always been a step ahead of him and still are, despite the many pessimists in the crowd. But so what. Either way, we just keep playing what we think is best. |
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| Nov-22-06 | | Karpova: <DomDaniel: She insists that she's an Incubus, but otherwise you're spot on.>
Incubi attack women while Succubi are their equivalent for male human-beings. |
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Nov-22-06
| | Domdaniel: <lvlaple> You're right about the impulse voters. But there seems to be a hard core of 50+ - no telling if they're the same people every time, but it looks that way - who just don't pay attention to any of the kibitzing. I think our last vote showed this more clearly than ever, with so many votes for a move, Qd3, which was repeatedly shown to be bad, though it looked superficially attractive. Only a handful of voters even tried to defend it here - the other 70+ just played it. And almost all pretty quickly, too. Maybe we have to live with the working assumption that there are 50-70 wild cards out there. They won't always jump the same way - but they might have a dangerous influence at times. This is one reason I'm a little worried about our non-obvious moves like Kh2 or R1f2. As long as some more simplistic alternative exists - usually involving the f-pawn - it'll have impulse support. My impression is that nothing we do will get through. This page can get pretty sarcastic, but there's also been plenty of helpfulness and diplomacy when it's needed. The evidence is that the hardcore pay precisely zero attention. |
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