chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Robert James Fischer vs Mikhail Tal
"French Drawings" (game of the day Oct-15-2007)
Leipzig ol (Men) fin-A (1960), Leipzig GDR, rd 5, Nov-01
French Defense: Winawer. Retreat Variation Armenian Line (C18)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 12 more Fischer/Tal games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Robert James Fischer vs Mikhail Tal (1960) French Drawings


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-09-16  morfishine: Exactly what does "objectively speaking" mean anyways? This looks like another attempt by an imitator annotator striving to gain credibility in a field they are not qualified to comment on in the first place
Aug-10-16  posoo: MORFUDLAIN is a SNOBB

in dis context OBJECTAVLY SPEKING means dat it is a SURE WAY to get da draugh if u think dat is da best result. and he is rite!

he made a good post do NOT be jells.

Sep-15-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: <but Fischer got the long title on his placard.>

Tal got the <better> title on his placard.

Sep-15-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: <Howard: Soltis called this draw one of the most "overrated" games in history, and, frankly, he's right. It was a good game, but not worth all the hype in my view.>

Soltis never played at this level, so he wouldn't know. And neither would you, actually.

Sep-30-16  Howard: One would suspect that Soltis COULD have played at this level...if he had a computer to help him, naturally.

Still say Soltis was correct when he stated in his book that if the two players in this game had been almost anyone else, this game would have been quickly forgotten.

Oct-01-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: <I'm still blaming HeMateMe.>

You're not the first person to say that.

Oct-01-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: was Leipzig in East or West Germany?
Oct-01-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gregor Samsa Mendel: <HMM>--East Germany.
Nov-08-16  Saniyat24: What are the other interesting options of White in the 16th move instead of Nf7?
Nov-25-16  amaurobius: <Joshka: I posted the pic on Ray's page, this will get settled once and for all :-) Heck even Nigel would know too> Ray has replied on 24 November - he thinks Forintos or possibly Eising.
Nov-25-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  roberts partner: <Joshka: I posted the pic on Ray's page, this will get settled once and for all :-) Heck even Nigel would know too> Ray has replied on 24 November - he thinks Forintos or possibly Eising.

Neither Forintos nor Eising was present at Leipzig 1960. The correct identification of the dark-suited spectator is given on page 4 of this thread.

Feb-17-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Howard: Soltis called this draw one of the most "overrated" games in history, and, frankly, he's right. It was a good game, but not worth all the hype in my view.>

Tal and Fischer both included it in their best games collections. It's probably worth a fair amount of hype.

Feb-17-17  Howard: Regarding the above comment, Soltis did concede one point about that game, and that was that neither Fischer nor Tal "could have been accused of self-promotion" because they were both known for being very objective about their games.

Soltis, however, also argued that the game actually had a few errors in it that Fischer (I've never seen Tal's comments, though.) had missed. He also stated (and I think Soltis was dead-on)that probably the main reason this game got so much undue attention was because of the strong rivalry between these two.

In other words, if the two players in this overrated encounter had been almost anyone else, this game would have been forgotten decades ago.

Feb-17-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Soltis, however, also argued that the game actually had a few errors in it that Fischer (I've never seen Tal's comments, though.) had missed.>

This game has <lots> of errors. But it's legendary.

Lasker vs Schlechter, 1910

< He also stated (and I think Soltis was dead-on)that probably the main reason this game got so much undue attention was because of the strong rivalry between these two.>

Does Soltis think that is why Fischer and Tal themselves were impressed?

<In other words, if the two players in this overrated encounter had been almost anyone else, this game would have been forgotten decades ago.>

Games are rarely evaluated independently of the circumstances in which they were played.

Nov-18-17  Octavia: Fancy - a chess Olympiad in Leipzig, DDR! I was 5 then, learned chess from 1 of my big bro & played it with family, friends & in pubs until I went to sleepy Scotland in 1970 where I learned that you could play chess in clubs & competitions. Chess was a well kept secret.
Nov-18-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Surely this is a fascinating game. Perhaps some of the negative comments come from overexposure. You tend to be less impressed with something you are very used to.
Jul-09-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: French Drawings:

https://sah.hr/forum/index.php?topi...

Jul-09-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Many beautiful pictures in <Stonehenge>'s source! Where is it from, Slovenia? Unfortunately I have zero knowledge of the Slavic languages.
Jul-09-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: It's a Croatian site.
Jul-09-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Look <morphishine>, what I meant before by "Objectively speaking" is that the move 19.Kh1 probably would have a higher computer evaluation, but that from a human perspective is it perhaps better to play 19.Kf1, because, while the draw is less obvious for White, the going is very tricky for Black and he actually has losing chances. Not that I think you really care; you probably just felt like insulting somebody.
Jul-09-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Thank you <Stonehenge>.
Jul-21-18  Albion 1959: The picture shows Tal about to make his 7th move Ne7. A lively colourful little game, far removed from all those "Grandmaster draws". I don't understand why Soltis is so disparaging about this game? Okay, it's flawed, but given the level of sharp tactical play, it is very rare even for strong grandmasters to find the right moves. Maybe with a top rate search engine or computer, would it be possible to grind out the correct move at every turn? Who is Andy Soltis anyway? I doubt if he would have got a draw in this position against either of these two, playing with the white or black pieces! If he had got a draw, I reckon that he would have been quite pleased with his efforts? A draw against the World Champion and a future World Champion!
Oct-16-19  Octavia: it's in DRAW, The Art of the Half-Point in Chess by Verkhovsky. The last game in the book with 7...Ne7 missing. That's why I had to come here today.
Nov-17-19  outplayer: Games like this would never occur between two patzers. They were geniuses.
Nov-20-19  dashjon: 19 Kh1 is one of my favorite moves of all time.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 8)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any gratuitous name-calling of any members—including Admin and Owners—or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
getting a feel for openings (C) Compiled fourier
by fredthebear
#7-Leipzig Olympiad 1960 (45/254)
from World's Greatest Chess Games by DanBoyle
Complex games
by TheDestruktor
No holds barred
from My 60 Memorable Games/Fischer by demirchess
October 15: French Drawings
from Game of the Day 2007 by Phony Benoni
The World's Greatest Chess Games- 100 Games
by 50movesaheadofyou
Perhaps way "over-rated", but plenty of action for debate
from Photo Album of Fredthebear by fredthebear
Final Round 5- USSR vs USA
from Tal at the Leipzig Olympiad 1960 by jessicafischerqueen
9
from 125 Greatest Chess Games by Retarf
Robert Fischer's Best Games
by demirchess
C18
from Great Games by ECO Code by biglo
Jlcf's favorite games
by Jlcf
Spinoza's favorite games
by Spinoza
Game 23
from My Sixty Memorable Games (Fischer) by smarticecream
9
from 125 Greatest Chess Games by xajik
"Most overrated game in chess"?
from The Greatest Draws Ever Played by Calchexas
RedHawk's french defense game's
by RedHawk
fischer 4, immortal draw
from emilio's favorite games, 2 by emilio martinez


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us


Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC