| Aug-07-11 | | madhatter5: The exchange french is a draw offer in disguise. |
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| Aug-30-16 | | Straclonoor: To <madhatter5> Not at all. Exchange French is very effective weapon. Please, have on Chigorin's games in this opening. |
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| Aug-30-16 | | sudoplatov: Perhaps Alekhine was just being cautious.
Janowski vs Alekhine, 1914 |
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| Jun-15-19 | | mifralu: additional moves < 30. Kd3 Ke6 > < Skinner&Verhoeven, Alexander Alekhine's Chess Games 1902-1946, p. 98 > Correction slip submitted. |
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Jun-15-19
 | | keypusher: <mifralu> Tarrasch’s tournament book also has the game ending after 29 moves. Correction slip to your correction slip submitted. |
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| Jun-15-19 | | mifralu: <keypusher:> Skinner&Verhoeven give "St. Petersburg 1914, p. 112-13" From this book here?
<St. Petersburg 1914: International Chess Tournament
World's Greatest Chess Tournaments Series
Siegbert Tarrasch
Dale A. Brandreth
Caissa Editions, 1993>
Source of all tournament games St. Petersburg 1914. |
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Jun-15-19
| | keypusher: < mifralu: <keypusher:> Skinner&Verhoeven give "St. Petersburg 1914, p. 112-13"
From this book here?
<St. Petersburg 1914: International Chess Tournament World's Greatest Chess Tournaments Series
Siegbert Tarrasch
Dale A. Brandreth
Caissa Editions, 1993>
Source of all tournament games St. Petersburg 1914.> The game is on pp.192-93, for starters. And I promise you, it has only 29 moves in the book. I would hesitate to treat Brandreth’s edition of Tarrasch’s book as authoritative anyway, given that it erroneously indicates a Capa-Nimzo game in Round 11 (though that’s really just a typo). But Skinner and Verhoeven don’t appear to be following it anyway.
You really shouldn’t submit correction slips based on S&V. Chess writers back in the old days tended to be fairly casual about the ending of games like this, and who is to say they weren’t right. Anyway, perfect confidence about whether this game lasted 29 or 30 moves is probably not attainable. |
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| Jun-15-19 | | ughaibu: <perfect confidence about whether this game lasted 29 or 30 moves is probably not attainable> Remind me, what was the time control? I've a suspicion that it was both eccentric and irrelevant, something about thirty six moves. |
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| Jun-15-19 | | sneaky pete: Das Grossmeisterturnier zu St. Petersburg im Jahre 1914 / Sammlung sämtlicher Partien mit ausführlichen Anmerkungen / Im Auftrage des Turnier-Komitees herausgegeben von Dr. Tarrasch (first published Nürnburg 1914 / Dr. Tarraschs Selbtsverlag) has 29 moves (pages 128/129). |
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| Jun-15-19 | | sneaky pete: Dr. Tarrasch gives the final moves as 28.Ke2 Ke7 29.Ke3 K<e>6
click for larger view(No correction submitted, I wouldn't dare.) |
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Jun-15-19
| | keypusher: <sneaky pete > Your modesty becomes you. Brandreth also gives ...Ke6. But what does your book report as Marshall’s second move in Alekhine vs Marshall, 1914, out of curiosity? I wonder what cg’s source was. |
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Jun-15-19
 | | Telemus: <Dr. Tarrasch> Tarrasch had no doctor title. |
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| Jun-15-19 | | ughaibu: <Tarrasch had no doctor title.> That's an unusually interesting assertion, can you furnish your reader with reasons to take it seriously? If so, please do so. If not, well, I don't know what to say. |
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Jun-15-19
| | beatgiant: <Telemus>
Tarrasch is widely reported to have been a medical doctor by profession, although I'm not quickly able to provide an authoritative source for the claim. But, if serious, we should move the discussion to the Siegbert Tarrasch page. |
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Jun-15-19
| | beatgiant: <Telemus>
For example, the wikipedia article on Tarrasch claims, without source, "Having finished school in 1880, he left Breslau to study medicine in Halle. With his family, he settled in Nuremberg, Bavaria, and later in Munich, setting up a successful medical practice." |
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| Jun-15-19 | | ughaibu: Beatgiant: nothing in that Wikipedia quote entails that he had been designated a doctor. |
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Jun-15-19
| | keypusher: <ughaibu >
Two hours for 30 moves (pretty standard in those days, I think), then 1.5 hrs for 22 moves, then 15 hours per move. There were supposed to be no draws, except via perpetual check, repetition, or stalemate, in under 45 moves. Incidentally, Tarrasch complained rather bitterly about this non-effort in the tournament book <The opponents against whom Janowski had played with this full strength — there was really only one, namely Tarrasch — had been hurt that he really only simulated a game here.> Tarrasch vs Janowski, 1914 |
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Jun-15-19
| | keypusher: It’s a wonderful commentary on human nature that such a peaceful game can incite such strife on a chess website. But as we see, it engendered a lot of ill-will in 1914 too. |
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| Jun-15-19 | | sneaky pete: <keypusher> No modesty involved. I was afraid that if I submitted a correction slip based on what Tarrasch published, someone here would expose my hero Herr Doktor Tarrasch as a bungler. He doesn't even sport a middle initial like Dale A. Brandeth. Marshall played 2... Nc6 (page 173).
Nürnb<u>rg in my earlier post today should be Nürnb<e>rg. The general title applied to anyone qualified to act as a medical practitioner is doctor (or Dr. in abbreviation), regardless of whether that person has an academic title or not. |
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| Jun-15-19 | | ughaibu: Keypusher: thanks: <Two hours for 30 moves> So, isn't thirty completed moves far more likely than twenty nine, unless one side was clearly winning? |
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Jun-15-19
| | keypusher: <Doubt that the stars are fire/Doubt that the sun doth move/Doubt truth to be a liar> but I never thought I’d hear Dr. Tarrasch’s medical credentials questioned. <ughaibu> I can imagine many possibilities, including that the two players went to the arbiter and said “we can repeat moves here, and we’re both more than ready to be done with this game. Can you please just let us end it here?” Or they may have played out the threefold repetition and Tarrasch didn’t bother to include it. I don’t see any reason to accept a correction from a secondary source that is here misquoting Brandreth’s rendering of Tarrasch’s book, especially since Brandreth seems to have made some errors himself. I think sneaky pete is entitled to submit a correction based on <Dr.> Tarrasch’s book, however. |
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| Jun-15-19 | | ughaibu: <Can you please just let us end it here?> But. . . . don't you think that Tarrasch's reliability should also be called into question? After all, hasn't some species of lack of objectivity been established already, for example, by the 'luck tables'? Naturally, I don't want to set a precedent from Brandreth vs. Tarrasch, but then again, I'm not a lawyer. |
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Jun-15-19
| | Telemus: <sneaky_pete: The general title applied to anyone qualified to act as a medical practitioner is doctor (or Dr. in abbreviation), regardless of whether that person has an academic title or not.> The subject has been widely and seriously discussed before, so in brief: There was a similar rule in action that requested an obligatory doctoral thesis, but it was changed before Tarrasch studied; so, an optional thesis would have been necessary for him to use the title, but he didn't write one. |
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Jun-15-19
| | beatgiant: <Telemus>
<doctoral thesis> I have seen it mentioned that Alekhine didn't complete his dissertation, but never Tarrasch. In Tarrasch's case we are talking about an M.D., not Ph.D., correct? Can you post a pointer to any discussion on this? |
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| Sep-20-19 | | Straclonoor: 18.Rxe6! & Bxg4 goes to serious advantage for white. Analysis by Stockfish 260819 64 POPCNT:
+- (4.77): 18.Rxe6 fxe6 19.Bxg4 Re8 20.Nb3 Qf8 21.Nh4 Qf6 22.Ng6 Qg5 23.Bh3 Qf6 24.Na5 Rb8 25.Bg4 a6 26.Nb3 Re8 27.Bh5 Rc8 28.Qe2 Rc7 29.Nc5 Nxc5 30.dxc5 Qf5 31.f4 Qe4 32.Qxe4 dxe4 33.Kf2 Rd7 34.Ke2 Rd8 35.Ne5 Kf8 36.Bg6 e3 37.Bd3 Ke7 38.Kxe3 Rg8 39.g4 Kf6 40.b4 Ra8 41.Be4 g5 42.g3 a5 |
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Kibitzing
