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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Dec-07-13
 | | offramp: 24...Rxe3 is called a double Lutz. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | abuzic: 24...Rxe3
White can try 25.Ra2 Qd4 26.fxe3
<26.Kh2 Nxf2 27.Raxf2 Qg4 28.Nf3 Qxg3+! 29.Kg1 <(29.Kxg3? leads to forced mate 29...Be5+ 30.Kh4 Re4+ 31.Kg5 Rg4+ 32.Kh6 Bf4+ 33.Ng5 Rh4#)> 29...Bd3 30.Rd1 Rexf3 31.Rxf3 Rxf3 32.Qe7 Bd4+ 33.Kh1 Rf4> 26...Qxe3+ 27.Kh2 Qxg5 28.Rxf5 Qh6+ 29.Bh3 Rxf5, threat ...Nf4, ...Rh5 black is lost. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | diagonalley: nah! ... i tried 24 ... NxP 25 BxN B-Q6 but it wasn't good enough |
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| Dec-07-13 | | morfishine: While this was more straightforward than yesterday's POTD, I still managed to vary on the second move: 24...Rxe3 25.fxe3 and here all my effort went into <25...Qe2>
click for larger view
I thought this was strong for Black since the Black Queen has access to <h5> (with the idea of freeing up the DSB) while threatening 26...Qxe3+ Unfortunately, the more I looked, the more resources White had to hold :( ***** |
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Dec-07-13
 | | Penguincw: I thought it was WHITE to move. If it was, I got ideas of 1.Ne6. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | thegoodanarchist: What a great finish. I hate the Dutch Defense, but it sure served Lutz very well in this game. When I play blitz on Gameknot.com, if my opponent plays the Dutch I will cancel the game about half the time. It is ugly to me. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | thegoodanarchist: < Penguincw: I thought it was WHITE to move.> LOL yeah we have all been there... |
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| Dec-07-13 | | abuzic: 24...Rxe3
white better not accept the R sac but will reach an endgame wiht inferior position:
25.Rab1 Qe2 26.Rb7 Bf6 27.Rf7 Re7 28.Rxe7 Qxe7 29.Qxe7 Bxe7 30.Ne4 Kg7,
click for larger view
a piece up black can win this endgame |
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| Dec-07-13 | | Patriot: White is up a pawn, so 24...Qxa1 25.Rxa1 Bxa1 isn't so appealing. Black seems to have a much stronger attack so a draw is probably not the best result. The best I'm finding is 24...Rxe3.
25.fxe3 Qe2 26.Ne6 Qxe3+ 27.Kh2 Qh6+ 28.Kg1 Qe3+ at least draws. 25.fxe3 Qe2 26.Ne6 Qxe3+ 27.Kh2 Be5 28.Rf3 looks better for white. 25.fxe3 Bh6 26.Ne6 Bxe3+ 27.Kh2 and the way forward is not clear. I'll go with 24...Rxe3, but I don't see a win. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | Patriot: I forgot one line:
24...Rxe3 25.fxe3 Qe2 26.Rf3 Ne1 27.Rf2 Qxe3 which looks good for black. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | Patriot: I was way off. 25...Qe2 26.Qe7 is a simple defense that wins. And my last line, the simple 27.Rxe1 wins. Despite my efforts, this is some of the worst analysis. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | morfishine: <Patriot> Yes, I also wandered down 25...Qe2 26.Qe7 24...Rxe3 25.fxe3 Qe2 26.Qe7 Ne5 27.Rae1 Qh5 28.Nf3 Bf6 29.Qxd6 Ng4
30.e4 Rd8 31.Qxc5 Rc8 32.Qa3 Rc3 33.Qa2 Bc8 34.d6+ Kh7 35.Qf7+ Kh6
36.Qf8+ Bg7 37.Qf4+ Kh7 38.e5 Rxf3 39.Rxf3 Qh2+ 40.Kf1 Ba6+
41.Re2 Bxe2+ 42.Kxe2 Qxg2+ 43.Kd1 Nxe5 44.Qh4+ Kg8
click for larger view
It looks White should take the repeat 45.Qd8+ Kh7 46.Qh4+ Kg8 (or this looks interesting 46...Bh6 47.Qe7+ Bg7 48.Rf4 Qd5+). There's no way I could see this far, so had to turn to my trust PGN editor :) ***** |
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| Dec-07-13 | | shivasuri4: <Patriot>, 24...Qxa1 is a blunder, as the bishop can't recapture, owing to the mating threat on h7. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | kevin86: The rook will go as the pawn at c2 is immune owing to the knight fork. |
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Dec-07-13
 | | agb2002: Black is one pawn down.
Black has five pieces to attack the white castle. This suggests 24... Nxf2: A) 25.Bxf2 Bd3
A.1) 26.Ne6 Rf7 27.Nc7 (27.Qa5 Bc3 28.Rab1 Bxb1 29.Qb5 Rb8 30.Qxb2 Rxb2 - + [R vs N]) 27... Bxf1 28.Rxf1 Ree7 or 28... Re2 looks winning. A.2) 26.Nh3 Bxf1 27.Rxf1 c4 looks good for Black. For example, 28.a5 c3 29.Bd4 Rxf1+ 30.Bxf1 Bxd4 30.Qxd4 Qd2 31.Qxd2 cxd2 32.Nf2 Re1 33.a6 d1=Q 34.Nxd1 Rxd1 followed by Ra1 and Kg7-f6-e5, etc. A.3) 26.a5 Bxf1 27.Rxf1 Re2 also seems to be good for Black. For example, 28.Ne4 (28.Ne6 Rxf2 29.Qxg7+ Qxg7 30.Nxg7 Rxf1+ 31.Bxf1 Kxg7 is similar to A.2) 28... Bd4 29.Ng5 Bxf2+ 30.Rxf2 (30.Kh1 Qg7) 30... Re1+ 31.Kh2 (31.Bf1 Qxf2+; 31.Rf1 Rexf1+ 32.Kh2 (32.Bxf1 Qf2+ 33.Kh1 Qxf1+ 34.Kh2 Rf2#) 32... Qh8+ 33.Nh3 (33.Bh3 R8f2#) 33... R1f7 - +) 31... Qh8+ 32.Nh3 (32.Bh3 Rxf2#) 32... Rxf2 - +. B) 25.Rae1 Ng4 looks bad for White due to the weakness of the diagonal a7-g1. |
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Dec-07-13
| | agb2002: 24... Nxf2 25.Bxf2 Bd3 seems to fail due to the maneuver 26.Qd7 followed by Qh3, defending and attacking at the same time. I saw 24... Rxe3 25.fxe3 Qe5 but had the impression that it was insufficient. Better luck tomorrow. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | Patriot: <morf> Good job in finding the 26.Qe7 defense. If there isn't already a principle, there should be one here. "Whenever material is sacrificed, look for a simple defense first." Because if your opponent can simply hold on with extra material and as long as you don't have a strong attack, you should be lost. Seeing a simple defense would have saved me a lot of time. <<shivasuri4>: <Patriot>, 24...Qxa1 is a blunder, as the bishop can't recapture, owing to the mating threat on h7.> Very true. I only noticed that even if the sequence went 24...Qxa1 25.Rxa1 Bxa1 (without a mate threat) it still looked bad for black because of extra material for white. That was enough to dismiss it before I got to the mate threat. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | abuzic: After
24...Rxe3
25.fxe3 Qe5 <25...Qe2 is actually bad for black after 26.Qe7 Ne5 27.Rae1 Qh5 28.Ne6 Rf7 29.Qxd6 Bf6 white dominates, and can even give the Q for 3 minor pieces like: 30.g4 Qxg4 31.e4 Qg3 32.exf5 Nf3+ 33.Rxf3 Qxd6 34.fxg6 Bd4+ 35.Nxd4 Rxf3 36.Nxf3 Qxd5 37.Re1+ Kg7 38.Rf7+ Kg8 39.Kf2>
click for larger view26.e4 looks the safest defence; for other lines:
A) 26.Kh1 Qxe3 27.Ne6 Qh6+ 28.Kg1 Bxa1 29.Rxa1 Bxe6 30.Qe7 <30.dxe6 Qe3+ 31.Kh2 Nf2> 30...Bf5
click for larger view
black is clearly winning
B) 26.Ne6 Qxe3+ 27.Kh1 <27.Kh2 Bxa1 28.Rxa1? Nf2+> 27...Be5 28.Rf3 Qh6+ 29.Kg1 Bxa1 30.Nxf8? Bd4+ C) 26.Nf3 Qxe3+ 27.Kh2 Ne5 28.Rad1 Ng4+ 29.Kh1 <29.Kh3 Be5> Qh6+ 30.Nh4 Bf6 D) 26.Kh2 Qxe3 27.Nf3 Ne5 flollowed by ...Ng4+
E) 26.Ne4 Bh6 27.Kh2 Bxe3 28.Rxf5 Qh8+ 29.Bh3 Qb2+ 30.Nf2 gxf5 |
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| Dec-07-13 | | whiteshark: He did sac the exchange for the lulz. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | Patriot: <agb2002> Not that I did well at all, but you missed something really big in A.1). 27.Qxf7+! Kxf7 28.Bd4+. Also 26...Rxf2 was possible. I thought your line 24...Nxf2 was interesting, but as you pointed out 25.Bxf2 Bd3 26.Qd7 - a simple (but not so easy to see) defense makes all the difference. So maybe the principle "Whenever material is sacrificed, look for a simple defense first." would have saved you a lot of time as well. |
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Dec-07-13
| | agb2002: Thank you <Patriot>. It must be some kind of psychological problem because I was convinced that the logical 24... Rxe3, weakening the dark squares around the white kind, was a red herring. |
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Dec-07-13
 | | Diademas: Not even close. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | patzer2: Amazingly strong play by both sides after Black's 24...Rxe3!! demolition of pawn structure tactic solution to this Saturday puzzle. Ran it through my computer (Fritz 12 on a dual core processor laptop) and came up without even a slight improvement for either side until White's 39th move. By then White was clearly lost and any alternative (e.g. 39. Rb1 Nf4+  ) would've made no difference. |
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| Dec-07-13 | | patzer2: < I was convinced that the logical 24... Rxe3, weakening the dark squares around the white kind, was a red herring.> Maybe Black saw all this, but I wonder if 24...Rxf3!! wasn't simply played as an attacking positional move. Perhaps Black simply calculated 24...Rxe3!! 25. fxe3 Qe5 weakening White's pawn structure, winning a pawn and putting strong pressure on the weakened King position offered a winning advantage. |
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| Dec-09-13 | | thegoodanarchist: < chrisowen> Two humongous posts of your "odd speak", to coin a phrase? You need a new hobby, man! |
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Kibitzing
sac: 24...Rxe3