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Simen Agdestein vs John Nunn
Nimzowitsch Memorial (1985), Naestved DEN, rd 11, Sep-28
King's Indian Defense: Saemisch Variation. Panno (E83)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-02-12  sevenseaman: <morfishine> You saw it! Thats brilliant.

Only after seeing the score did I feel admonished that I should have looked for a win for <Black> and enjoyed it too.

I thought we were always to look for best moves for either side. Black gets into his stride only if I choose an inferior move, right?

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Tinkering in con it giggles in gen for heading off jocular it fetch in

crave again eh whats the solution? Bad call it I thought nd1 first in

without thinking then realised it is damage for white again baba ji

all blacks children come to play knight signed earth core mind you

ghosting alekhines gun calms it hope in good carcuss in low again bit

find fop it same in dilemma for queen hoof low in a3 the suprise

element it cold in shower off degradation to white forget in d1 me

plonk for c1 in open arms it distract in black queens attention king

heading off up acolumn in exactly it might get trapped folling draw

queen down a2 nf7 queen goes a3 and mate around a1 in good game,

drawing fire off h7 in kingc1 qf1+ 55.nd1 be2 56.Qxd6 looks equal to

me it deinty little feint in head off whites surge now in level it

should as no suprise investigate in having to bet this one is drawn

for nunn it aim in getting pieces off the board and stuffing king

heaving around few in checks it even stevens it down into the wire

suprised in fact 8...e5 hasnt had more following as of late.

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <sevenseaman> I was fortunate on two points: (1) I had seen the almost identical combination a couple of months ago, I think by Magnus. (2) Once <53.Ka2> is ruled out, then <53.Rc1> becomes forced. Not "practically forced" but 100% forced. Sadly for White, this allows Black to infiltrate his Queen

Brutal Logic, which too often is my undoing [ie: forgetting the imaginative side] dictated this puzzle

I'd be curious to know how much time Adgestein took on move <53>...No doubt, a lot less than me!

On your comment <I thought we were always to look for best moves for either side. Black gets into his stride only if I choose an inferior move, right?> Especially if that inferior move is <53.Ka2>...I stopped analyzing after <54...Qf1+> figuring Whites e-pawn was doomed; Precision was required for the remaining moves too

Since you assessed a draw, I'd say you solved it

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: Ir must be strange being CG.com. They spring this position on us back in 2004, but then wait eight years (almost to the day) before doing it again.

Which gets me to wondering... how exactly do they do that? Do they keep a massive calendar somewhere where they assign POTDs many years in advance? Under this scenario, I can imagine that they have just pencilled this one in for its third appearance on the first saturday in June 2020.

Or do they make it up as they go along? Did they have a team meeting a few days ago where someone said: "What puzzle shall we have for next Saturday?"

and someone else said: "Why don't we have S Agdestein vs Nunn, 1985? We've not had that one for, ooh, it must be getting on for eight years now."

Or do they do it like Frank Marshall saving up the Marshall attack for Capablanca? Cue evil maniacal cackling laughter which somehow always begins with the letter "m" - "mwhahahah".

The Nf7/Qa3+ trick is such a thing of beauty. A reminder that our opponent gets a chance to play a combination of his own from time to time - something which is easy to forget when doing lots of puzzles.

I suspected that something was "up", but didn't see it. Kudos and 'spect to those who did.

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: I used 10 minutes before I even noticed that white were inn chess.

Looking forward to Monday.

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Another chapter in the puzzle book "How to loose half a point on Saturday"
Jun-02-12  Patriot: Material is even (I think!).

White is in check and there are only 3 replies: Ka2, Rc1, and Nd1. I don't see the point in 53.Nd1 Rxd1+ 54.Ka2 (54.Kb2? Qg7 trading when ahead). The question is, what's the difference between 53.Rc1 and 53.Ka2? For one thing, 53.Rc1 may be throwing away winning chances if any exist. So is 53.Ka2 losing? I'm not seeing it. For example, 53.Ka2 Nb5 54.Nc4 seems to hold. There could be a problem after 54...Qb4 though. But on 53...Nb5 54.Bxb5 Bxb5 is also possible. 53...Nc4 54.bxc4 Qb4 looks dangerous for white.

So maybe 53.Rc1 is the key. 53...Rxc1+ 54.Kxc1 Qf1+ 55.Kc2 Qe2+ looks risky.

I'm going with 53.Ka2.

Jun-02-12  Patriot: Ah ok. 53.Ka2 Nf7! and the queen is lost since black also threatens 54...Qa3+ 55.Kxa3 Ra1#.
Jun-02-12  gofer: This is really quite nice and very unusual for <CG>. We are defending a check and so need to find out the reason to choose one defense over another.

1) We can discard Ka2 very quickly!

53 Ka2 Nf7!

White cannot defend against the threats of

54 ... Qa3+ 55 Kxa3 Ra1#

and

54 ... Nxe5

2) We can discard Rc2 very quickly as it loses our main attacking piece because we really want to play Rc7 at some point and it also loses one of our central pawns!

53 Rc1 Rxc1+
54 Kxc1 Qf1+

55 Nd1 Be2
56 Qxd6 Qxd1+
57 Kb2 Qd4+
58 Ka2 Bf3

55 Kc2 Qe2+
56 Kc1 Qe3+
57 Kc1 Qxe4+
58 Qxe4 Nxe4

Either way black has an very definite possibilities!

3) So that just leaves sacrificing the knight! Really is that the best option????

53 Nd1!? Rxd1
54 Kb2/Ka2 Qg7

Hmmm, this forces the exchange of queens and looks very bleak for white, so all I can assume is that we go for option 2) and fight out the best of the end games for a draw...

Time to check...

~~~

Nice puzzle <CG> don't get a defensive puzzle very often!

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  paulalbert: Saw immediately W was in check and only three possible moves. Suspected W was looking for a draw, not a win. Although I saw a lot of the ideas, couldn't come to a definite conclusion. Since this was a puzzle spent a lot of time to see whether Nd1 ( a move I wouldn't even consider if I were actually playing ) made any sense, but couldn't see anything to justify just throwing away a piece. Probably would have gone with Rc1 in an actual game since Ka2 seemed to lose, but certainly would not have been convinced that I could be sure of a draw.
Jun-02-12  GlennOliver: Even after White has avoided the clever trap at a2, it seems to me that best play from Black still wins - for example -

53. Rc1 Rxc1+ 54. Kxc1 Be2 55. Qh2 Qf1+ 56. Kc2 Nxe4 57. Bc6 Nc5 58. Qc7+ Kh6 59. Qxb6 Bd1+ 60. Nxd1 Qe2+ 61. Kb1 Qxd1+ 62. Kb2 d2+ 63. Ka1 Qc1+ 64. Ka2 Qc2+ 65. Ka1 Nxb3+ etc.

Is there some additional White resource which I'm not seeing?

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I had no idea about this one-if it was to win or draw. I guess the important thing was not to be mated quickly...

Interesting start:white is in check.

Jun-02-12  polarx: I think this puzzle is great. Did not see the trap though.
Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  doubledrooks: I went with 53. Rc1, as neither 53. Nd1 Rxd1+ or 53. Ka2 Nf7 54. Q moves Qa3+ 55. Kxa3 Ra1# looks good.
Jun-02-12  lost in space: hmmm, saw after a long think the threat Nf7 Qa3 Ra1 mate....but only because I was aware that this is a puzzle.

Therefore I choose the only alternative move: Rc1....but I was not able to calculate the outcome of this move. Everything but a white win, was my thought...but better than a sure lost.

Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <GlennOliver> <Even after White has avoided the clever trap at a2, it seems to me that best play from Black still wins - for example - 53. Rc1 Rxc1+ 54. Kxc1 Be2 55. Qh2 Qf1+ 56. Kc2 Nxe4 57. Bc6 Nc5 58. Qc7+ Kh6 59. Qxb6 Bd1+ 60. Nxd1 Qe2+ 61. Kb1 Qxd1+ 62. Kb2 d2+ 63. Ka1 Qc1+ 64. Ka2 Qc2+ 65. Ka1 Nxb3+ etc.

Is there some additional White resource which I'm not seeing?>

55.Qh2 seems weak to me: giving up the e-pawn so easily and the threats of perpetual check when the black Q moves from f8. 52.Na4 looks OK, but there may be many other possibilities that avoid just handing the initiative to black.

Jun-02-12  Landman: White's in check so that limits the options. Natural is Ka2 but this is a puzzle. Hmm, Qa3+, Ra1 is mate, so first Nf7 to attack the queen and open Qf8-a3. Yes, that's a problem.

I'm guessing it'll be Nd1 opening the b2 escape square and avoiding the R exchange.

Jun-02-12  Golfergopher: Went with Ka2, did not see Qa3 Ra1. Tricky.
Jun-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: A tricky position, hard to tell if we are looking for a win or a draw. I was suspicious of playing 53.Ka2, but not seeing a win with 53.Rc1, and determining that 53.Nd1 would lose, I thought I found some chances with 53.Ka2, overlooking 53...Nf7!. A good puzzle.
Jun-02-12  Ian McGarrett: Is this a new category of chess puzzle: White to move and not blunder horribly.
Jun-02-12  remolino: What an excellent puzzle - A defensive puzzle for a change! Very instructive.

I recommend that CG continue to vary the themes of the puzzles for the benefit of us Masters, Experienced players and patzers alike.

Jun-03-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: The material is equal.

The white king is under check. The answer 53.Ka2 seems to lose against 53... Nf7 with the double threat 54... Qa3+ 55.Kxa3 Ra1+ and 54... Nxe5.

Therefore, 53.Rc1 and after 53... Rxc1+ 54.Kxc1 Qf1+ 55.Nd1 Be2 56.Qxd6 Qxe1+ 57.Kb2 and White has the possibility of forcing perpetual by checking along the d8-g5 diagonal.

Jun-03-12  GlennOliver: Tiggler,

Thank you for your reply.

It would be helpful if you would explain further just why -

"55.Qh2 seems weak to me"

- i.e. what are the lines that develop from that "weak" move and what would be a better move.

And also share with us what are the "many other possibilities that avoid just handing the initiative to black"?

Perhaps you are right, but we have no way of knowing until you clarify your views.

Jun-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <GlennOliver>: <Tiggler,

Thank you for your reply.

It would be helpful if you would explain further just why -

"55.Qh2 seems weak to me"

- i.e. what are the lines that develop from that "weak" move and what would be a better move.>

I was responding to the line you gave, which developed from that move, and I gave one example of a better move.

<And also share with us what are the "many other possibilities that avoid just handing the initiative to black"?

Perhaps you are right, but we have no way of knowing until you clarify your views.>

You are right to criticize may vagueness, but your quote is incomplete: I said "there may be many other ...". I said that because I am by no means sure the move I gave is best. I think it is better that 55.Qh2, but if you disagree that's fine with me. I don't use an engine, so I have to rely on judgement in long lines like the one you gave. You did ask <Is there some additional White resource which I'm not seeing?>.

Jun-05-12  LoveThatJoker: Saturday, June 2nd, 2012

No answer submitted

LTJ

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