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Nguyen Hoang Tuan vs Nguyen Xuan Quang
ch-VIE Prelim (2005), Hue VIE, rd 5, Apr-06
Formation: Hippopotamus (A00)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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sac: 40.Qg6+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-03-15  Robespierre: "Oh, good grief!..." Uff-da -- I'm in the same unfortunate boat as Phony Benoni! ;-))
Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Oxspawn: <goldfarbdj: Qg6+ was the obvious and only move> Not at all how chess is played on my board. I discarded the 'right' move fairly quickly after concluding that the king could escape! and spent time on 40. Ng5, and 40. Bg6. OK, so I was wrong, but I was well entertained before starting work. You were right, but you were stuck in the dismal narrow passage of the "only move". Chess as a journey or chess as a destination? And I get to see the correct moves by playing through the game. I see this as a lose-win situation that seems like a win-win solution. Have fun...
Jun-03-15  bachiller: After 43.Nf7+, Kh7, some people would mate the king. Others would play 44.NxQ; why spoil the fun of playing a few moves in a won game? Checkmate ends it all. Or better, why avoid the exciting possibility of blundering and losing?

My choice is 44.NxQ, of course.

Jun-03-15  TheaN: Wednesday 3 June 2015 <40.?>

I'm a bit in limbo whether I saw the mate in this one unconsiciously or it all fell into place immediately after opening the game.

I saw the obvious <40.Qg6+!> after trying Qxg8, which forces black to walk into a windmill with <40....Rxg6 41.Rxg6+ Kh7> at first sight, white does not get much out of this windmill. However, then you realize the knight's as free as a bird <42.Ng5+ Kh8 43.Nf7+ Kh7>.

Now here's the interesting point of this puzzle, and already much discussed. Lets agree that black's lost after either Nxd8 or Rg1-5#, the latter is just quicker and more in line with setting up the combination. By the time I saw that black had no reasonable options left after Nxd8 I clicked the game, but as I did I pondered if white could first use the discovered check; black was losing the queen anyhow. As I played Nf7+ on the board I realized white would checkmate in one and I had the feeling I did <before> I saw the move played on the board or clicking the game. Personally, I'd go with <44.Rg4#> for the reasons <jith1207> posted.

Tl;dr, always look for a better move and if black hasn't resigned after Nf7+ you always have time to look for a checkmate.

Jun-03-15  TheaN: What I describe is what I think is also the base of the flawed reasoning of 'overthinking'. We've all had it at least once that immediately when it's your move you know you can't play a certain move because of something. However in overthinking all your options, 'something' is completely forgotten and the initial wrong move is played anyway. An unconcious decision to reinstate the move you discarded earlier.

NB: oh and again the Wednesday puzzle seems more forced and in a way easier than Tuesday.

Jun-03-15  dfcx: It's a simple mate in 5.

40. Qg6+ Rxg6 41. Rxg6+ Kh7 42. Ng5+ Kh8 43. Nf7+ Kh7 44. Rg5#

I first saw the fork Nf7+ then found the mate.

This is way easier than the last Tuesday's puzzle.

Jun-03-15  zb2cr: We start with 40.Qg6+, Rxg6(forced); 41.Rxg6+, Kh7. Now White has black set up for a discovered check. White could gain a piece, but that still leaves him down by R+N vs. Q. No good.

Wait! 42. Ng5+ forces 42. ... Kh7. Now 43. Nf7+ regains White's sacrificed Queen, leaving him a full Rook up. Now, that's more like it.

Wait a second time! After 43. ... Kh7; any safe retreat by the Rook along the g file and it looks like checkmate.

Jun-03-15  CHESSTTCAMPS: Opposite-colored bishop middle-game with black's king badly exposed and trapped on the edge. White has a simple, forcing way to close:

40.Qg6+ Rxg6 41.Rxg6+ Kh7 42.Ng5+ Kh8 43.Nf7+ Kh7 44.Rg5(or g1:g4)#

Full credit also for 44.Nxd8.

Jun-03-15  jith1207: So regarding the conversation of gaining material over mating, I take from some of the brains here that we can opt for gaining material when we are not sure about our calculation of all moves till the very act of checkmating or when gaining material is more immediate, obvious and foolproof that does not lead to losing our materials back soon :-)
Jun-03-15  jith1207: or OTB, when the time is short and action needs to be quick and solid.
Jun-03-15  wooden nickel: <First take the queen, I can still always checkmate afterwards> -Schlage (after having had missed an immediate mate)
same situation here too!


click for larger view

Maybe 40.Ng5 is second best...
40... Qe8 41.Be6 Rg7 42.Nf7+


click for larger view

Jun-03-15  Sniffles: Wouldn't going for material gain as Nf7 over mate cost tournament ranking points?
Jun-03-15  morfishine: My excuse: Sent fm phone: )
Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: Mate in 5. Actually, I saw the knight fork on the K and Q first, before realizing that there is a better fifth move than the queen capture!

40. Qg6+ Rxg6 41. Rxg6+ Kh7 42. Ng5+ Kh8 43. Nf7+ Kh7 44. Rg5# (or Rg4, Rg3, Rg2, Rg1).

Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <40.Qg6+ Rxg6 41.Rxg6+ Kh7 42.Ng5+>, and that's it. <Tiggler: Mate in 5.> D'oh! :)
Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <40.Qg6+ Rxg6 41.Rxg6+ Kh7 42.Ng5+>, and that's it. <Tiggler: Mate in 5.> D'oh! :)
Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: White can regain the queen and be a rook ahead...or can discover mate on FIVE squares.
Jun-03-15  Chess Dad: I won't say I completely solved today's problem.

I did get the correct move each time until resignation, but I didn't see the end from the beginning. And I should have, since after each white move black has exactly one legal move.

Jun-03-15  Cheapo by the Dozen: I think one solves the problem if one sees a sequence that gives a crushing win against all defenses. As soon as one is convinced of that, one is right to move and hit one's clock. That doesn't mean you can't look for even better moves along the way if the opponent plays on.
Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Moving g6 along then swift cliff edge

valient attempt to save cant be done mate in five or for a after g6 lid

down mate in four cage at boon
boot back boosh took tool over other

bind ive hot an littlest hobo wins am gas scag sag black clag sibling queen g6 wins then biscuit ok in ogled have king i h6 angle in uniform appraisal signal bid dibs an daquiri nest quosh g6 for rove foot tow in fort honour and hope wait ok in ogles f6 at bad good e8 and egual ive kapow g6 jap smooth junk head hive hook manage have rich an xray double in dig match eg win pa blows f6 light in ascendancy another vetted i mustang sally am bind ive back que winch wo under the gun cocked came over i g2 up ply in light g6 at enact wins command mins man net vision bruv post mortem reveals alink f6 bad good e8 lib digs evermore abreast hive for one i be prang g6 at win dead an glorify oh door f7 angle g6 rook follows it of in over h7 it seem like for one save aint possible go build g6 angled h7 in dread gauge spark flow g5 an then f7 at chance go build lake g5 at enact wins safe at cad duffed in fly aim devious ploy in dug efface up food for thought raven eg liege nt necessary lane glean huffle and shuffle go build in beck and call g5 hood wink ala show boat g5 line wobble at mate in effect ave in near far gain every good chance aim find flows ever enter duos elegy rates encircle i da flow too give farm glean aim cred checks h7 around in beats f6 him down ebber gap have free ebony aint possible stuck in mate trap an dug out in giving abreast ive in co determine bit-dives ave-go ate good in fly infer tile ground an fad aim eg anuvver e8 tickle around enact lines up have eg queen e8 over horse f6 light wins mate in four am done.

Deal since act finishers 39...Nf6 bet in flightsheed headed in heel and boot e8 good have heckle the crowd g6 heeded vow an he efface up he give i g2 up ply in light g6 as win as heffa nest eh effect he jest again serious business at hand hi eedjut bridge ive spark horde in hammer h7 he enter gap have hi ever i g2 noble g6 angle gingers able nut he epicentre as on pine head ive quarter e8 drivings.

Jun-03-15  Pedro Fernandez: About 10 min. to find the key move 40.Qg6+! The rest is automatic! I lost my time analyzing 40.Ng5 which seems logic at first glance.
Jun-03-15  Pedro Fernandez: Uncovered mate obviously is beautiful, it would be foolish don't do it.
Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: Let's have a third solution. After 40. Qg6+ Rxg6 41. Rxg6+ Kh7 42. Ng5+ Kh8 43. Nf7+ Kh7, we get to here:


click for larger view

Choice number one: the assassin would settle this with cold steel. Any rook move south of g5 would be an effective evisceration.

Choice number two: the barbarian would choose the singular regicide with 44. Nxd8 grabbing the black queen and emerging a rook up.

Choice number three: the sadistic murderer would opt for a double regicide by playing 44. Nxd8 and then announcing mate in two. There is nothing black can do to prevent white from giving mate with Nf7+ or any one of Rg5,4,3,2,1.

Mwhahaha.

Jun-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Yes, I got this puzzle! It's the first time in 2 weeks I solved a puzzle, and it's on a Wednesday (flashback 2 weeks before: Matulovic vs Hecht, 1965).

Anyway, I saw 40.Qg6+ Rxg6 41.Rxg6+ Kh7. At that point, I wanted to play 42.Rxf6+, but the position arising is unclear, as white has a rook and knight vs. queen.

I then realized there was a knight, so then played 42.Ng5+ Kh8 43.Nf7+ Kh7 44.Nxd8, and white is up a full rook and winning (although 44.Rg4# 1-0 is better).

I have to admit, it feels weird to actually have solved a puzzle...

Jun-03-15  jindraz: much more difficult to pronounce than to solve. Just remember, folks, if you have a choice between taking a queen and mating, always take the queen--you can mate later.
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